Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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 Posted:
Nov 21, 2021 - 12:21 |
 
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Exactly. For saurus it now means their 5+ dodge becomes a 4+ dodge, which sucks
BT was so good when it made saurus dodge on a 2+, it feels like it was nerfed specifically to hurt lizardmen teams
BT is now only really good on Ogre, Minotaur, Rat Ogre. it makes their 4+ dodge into a 2+ |
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Medon
Joined: Jan 28, 2015
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Nov 21, 2021 - 17:04 |
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“ Trees are saving up for Block, or possibly +MA.â€
I would think that the new 3+ pro would be superior on trees? Helps on blocks, stand up and take root. Block is less viable as brawler is a good primary skill that together with pro gives quite reliable blocks |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Nov 21, 2021 - 18:05 |
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Brawler and Pro don't really synergise though..
If you have both skills, and you roll Bothdown + Skull, can you use Brawler on the Bothdown and Pro on the Skull?
From reading the rule descriptions, I can't see why not |
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sebco
Joined: Feb 14, 2005
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Nov 21, 2021 - 19:59 |
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Yes, you can. That's in the FAQ.
Q: If a player has both the Pro and Brawler skills, can they re-roll a single Both Down result for the Brawler skill, and then use the Pro skill to attempt to re-roll another dice from the same dice pool? (p. 77 & 80)
A: Yes, so long as the same dice isn't re-rolled more than once. |
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I like cheese but don't call me skaven ! |
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Kinks
Joined: Feb 28, 2007
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Nov 21, 2021 - 20:55 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | Break Tackle has been changed in BB2020: |
Oh wow - That's harsh. I guess that kind of helps human blitzers and such who get BT as a rando. I'm glad I found that out before taking it. Thanks
| sebco wrote: | Q: If a player has both the Pro and Brawler skills, can they re-roll a single Both Down result for the Brawler skill, and then use the Pro skill to attempt to re-roll another dice from the same dice pool? (p. 77 & 80)
A: Yes, so long as the same dice isn't re-rolled more than once. |
Thanks - was just wondering that. |
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Medon
Joined: Jan 28, 2015
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Nov 23, 2021 - 00:02 |
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| Sp00keh wrote: | | Brawler and Pro don't really synergise though.. |
Well I think they do… on the skull/skull you need pro on one die. No synergy there… but failure reduced from 1/36 to 1/65
The synergy is there when you roll skull/both down or both down/both down. In that case you can reroll both dice. One of those dices can be rerolled with pro and the other with brawler. The odds of failure for this one will shrink from 3/36 to 1/195
Combined failure of the entire dice pool drops from 1/9 to 1/49. Quite impressive right? So pro+brawler is even better than block… |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Nov 23, 2021 - 00:28 |
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Block works during Blitz Action and as defensive skill too when blocked by opponents, unlike Brawler.
Also, Block is 1 skill, Pro and Brawler 2 skills. |
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gognardnet
Joined: Jun 25, 2021
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Nov 23, 2021 - 04:05 |
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lots of picks and almost nothing random. |
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Medon
Joined: Jan 28, 2015
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Nov 23, 2021 - 08:23 |
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Ah yes the thread was on randoms sorry... well random S skills are quite good on a treeman as well  |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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Nov 23, 2021 - 08:25 |
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For my Orc team I have taken random General skills on Blitzers and Line Orcs and random Agility skills on a Goblin. For the Black Orcs - I chose Block. The reasoning is that Black Orcs really only have a few skills I really want them to have and most of the rest are pointless. For Blitzers and Line Orcs, every General skill is decent to get, they seemed a bargain to me at half price! Similarly for the Goblin - any agility skill was going to be good.
So far the returns have been decent, but I certainly have players I wouldn't have planned for:
The good
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Goblin with Catch + Sure feet
Blitzer with Pro + Frenzy + Sure Hands
Blitzer with Strip Ball, Dauntless and Sure Hands
The Bad
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Blitzer with Brawler (Strength skills are probably not worth it in hindsight)
The Ugly
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Line Orc with Frenzy |
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I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.
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Medon
Joined: Jan 28, 2015
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Nov 23, 2021 - 10:01 |
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Does brawler not have its uses? You can still turn a both down into a pow with that skill? |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Nov 23, 2021 - 10:18 |
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Brawler's ok, but it doesn't work in the opponent turn and it doesn't work on your blitz
So you still want Block. But then it feels like you're wasting the Brawler
If you have both Brawler and Block you'd only benefit from Brawler on a 2-dice block if:
- The opponent has Block, and you rolled Bothdown+Push, or Bothdown+Bothdown. (5 in 36)
- The opponent has Block and Dodge, and you rolled Bothdown+Push, or Bothdown+PowPush, or Bothdown+Bothdown. (7 in 36)
So imo Block makes Brawler mostly irrelevant.
However Brawler would be a good random result on a Big Guy who has already got the Guard you wanted as their first advancement, and now you're just happy to roll random ST skills for the rest of their advancements
On a Black Orc team, I've taken random ST skills on the BOs and random AG skills on the goblins, it has worked out .. ok but not amazing
Random skills 10k each on the black orcs:
- Guard. great!
- Thick Skull. meh
- Guard. great!
- Multiple Block & Thick Skull. useless & meh
- Arm Bar. useless
- Stand Firm & Thick Skull. ok, but retired
So effectively, I've got 6x active skills for 60k and 2 of them are Guard
I could have paid 40k to choose the Guard only.
For the extra 20k difference, I've gained 2x Thick Skull and 2x useless skills, so it's probably worth it.
I'd replace 2 of those guys but don't have the gold yet.
Random skills 10k each on the goblins:
- Side Step. excellent
- Sprint. great
- Sneaky Git. excellent
- Diving Catch & Catch. meh, retired
- Leap & Sure Feet. meh, retired
- Leap & Sneaky Git. hmm interesting. unfortuntely he died
- Jump Up & Side Step & Leap. meh, retired
So again, 3x active random skills and they're all good, so this is a bargain for 30k, but really I'd rather have advancements and the TV on the BOs rather than the gobs
Overall I've retired 1 BO and 3 goblins for rolling bad randoms, at a cost of 215k. The team's had 8 games and is at 1095k with 45k in the bank |
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Garion26
Joined: Nov 28, 2021
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Nov 30, 2021 - 20:44 |
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The value of a random skill really depends on the player and their skill access.
Random General skills on a stunty is almost always better then a selected agility skill. most of the general skills really help a stunty play like a more competent player (block, wrestle, dauntless, tackle, pro are all for example really good - frenzy and shadowing less so)
Random skills on other players depends on how much SPP they generate, what their skill access is and how long the league is. I'm taking random Strength skills on a blood spawn as it doesn't generate a lot of SPP (12 blocks thrown in my last game 1 casualty) and it rerolls three of the choices (Grab, mighty blow, strong arm) while things like juggernaught, guard, stand firm are excellent. Of course my first level was Thick Skull I still think it was worth the risk. Basically trading two strength skill randoms for one selected strength skill. |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Nov 30, 2021 - 20:58 |
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I'd say Thick Skull for 10k is pretty good on Bloodspawn with their AV 9+
It could have been Arm Bar, my least favourite and most rolled ST skill
Can you have multi block with frenzy?
Otherwise yea agree with your points |
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Garion26
Joined: Nov 28, 2021
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Nov 30, 2021 - 21:06 |
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FUMBBL appears to think you can have multi block with Frenzy according to the skill up table as I recall it. But I was indeed wondering how that would work in practice.
I did think the Thick Skull was a help - just not as good as the really good strength skills.
I should have also said it depends on how many games you plan to play with a team. Normal tabletop leagues of ten games or so - you can figure out how many SPP you are likely to get in that time per player and plan accordingly. Perpetual leagues like FUMBBL might allow people to think about multiple selected secondaries. |
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