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gonzip



Joined: Jul 29, 2022

Post   Posted: Nov 05, 2023 - 18:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Hi everyone

When I started playing bloodbowl about a year ago and read some guides, Kick skill was always mentioned as very useful and actually sought after in hybrid/agi teams.

But, while I've been playing, the ammount of teams I have seen that actually level up and choose the kick skill on any of their players is very small, even the well developed teams seem to not be fielding one a lot of times.

Is this my perception? Is Kick actually underused and should be skilled much sooner? Is it not as good as preached?

What's your view on this?

Thanks!
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 05, 2023 - 18:10 Reply with quote Back to top

It's very good, particularly on fast teams where you can kick deep and chase down a loose ball or isolated carrier
It shapes how the game is played, similar to how Frenzy can
Personally I'd want it from rolling a Random General skill on a lineman, rather than as a Chosen skill

I guess people don't take it that much because:
- They're playing a slow-ish team that won't chase down the ball
- They don't want to break formation to go hunt the ball
- They're prioritising other skills (block on linemen instead for example)
- They've not yet rolled it as a Random skill, or don't like rolling Randoms, or don't have the gold available to replace linemen who get bad Random skills
Carthage



Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 05, 2023 - 18:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Kick is the best skill in the game and you can't change my mind.
Even slow bashy teams like it because you can kick it short and force a brawl immediately. I think its mostly because people don't want it on positionals and most only roll randoms on linemen and just havent hit it yet. I save for the first lineman to pick it then start the random spree on linemen, if another one gets it, fire the expensive one.
T_Witch



Joined: Sep 01, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 05, 2023 - 18:36 Reply with quote Back to top

A good kicker can win you the game, or at least preserve your tie.

As above, bash teams they are good for kicker short and getting in the scrum quicker.
Fast teams kick deep in hopes to at least have a turn to get between the carrier and their support.

Most importantly, a good deep kick makes one turn chances much harder for your opponent.
Klunker



Joined: Apr 02, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 05, 2023 - 18:45 Reply with quote Back to top

This is coming from a bash background. Mostly Chaos Chosen.
Dash (Elvish) players will likely appreciate it more.
Kick is nice to have as a random general.
It is not a game changer. Don't invest a full general on it.
JimmyFantastic



Joined: Feb 06, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 05, 2023 - 19:24 Reply with quote Back to top

People who like it REALLY like it. It's generally decent on randoms.
Rats and Vamps can choose it because they have terrible players to take it on and super players to take advantage.

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BeanBelly



Joined: Nov 14, 2019

Post   Posted: Nov 05, 2023 - 20:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah I’ve found it useful on Rats and Under-rats. Tbh players dead/retired/mng often we don’t have it available. This thread has encouraged me to prioritise it for my UW!

Useful random on one player on other teams. If I roll a second random kicker I might retire the player, usually spare cash available.

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PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2023 - 09:30
FUMBBL Staff
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Instead of rearguing how good kick is, or isn't, the community will always be split. Instead i want to think about why less kick now.

Kick was, outside of the kickians and their kick first skill cult, a marginal gains pick on pieces with low options that ran out of great choices and didnt roll doubles.

Got several skilling norse linemen, rats and humans second skill after block or wrestle? options use to be limited, you grabbed a smattering of tackle, then why? some pro? some shadowing? a kick fitted perfectly, now the same player can save for a secondary and be useful but not bloaty as they do.

So it has suffered due to perpetual bowl meaning random and churn the bad ones, or take basics then wait for good skills, is the new meta. so the marginal gain skills get less use.

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JimmyFantastic



Joined: Feb 06, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2023 - 13:30 Reply with quote Back to top

One turns are substantially easier now though, and passing changes hinder 2 turns, so kick picks up some value there.
And you can random it for 10k. I like it more in 2020!

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razmus



Joined: Jun 23, 2017

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2023 - 13:50 Reply with quote Back to top

I like kick, but my biggest challenge with kick is I have it so rarely that I forget to use it.
Half the time, I forget to put my kicker in the right place to be able to take advantage of it.
Half the time that I put the kicker in the right place, in the two minutes my opponent was setting up for their offense, I've been singing along with Taylor Swift or Siouxsie Sioux, and forgotten I have kick and stick the ball in the "sweet spot".

Alas, at least with kick and the ball in the sweet spot, I can't kick it out of bounds.

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Carthage



Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2023 - 14:42 Reply with quote Back to top

I really don't understand the "kick can't be on the wings" part of the rule. That just seems like a constant feelsbad when you mess up and doesn't really put you in any kind of strategic trade situation. I get it for why you can't be on the line, but not being in the wings is so annoying. Feels more like a gotcha rule instead of something that should be in there.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2023 - 16:11 Reply with quote Back to top

agreed. i've literally missed kick 4 games in a row because the player 'needed' to be in the wings. (and i forgot kick couldn't be in the wings. one game i even set him up in the middle, set everyone else up, went 'why would i put HIM in the middle' and swapped him, and then swore a blue streak because i lost kick. Again.)
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2023 - 16:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Out of curiosity, is there, in American Football, a restriction about the kicker's position on the pitch, like in BB?
I wonder if the BB rule was inspired by an American Football rule.
Spence



Joined: Dec 05, 2012

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2023 - 18:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Is there actually less kick now? There should be more now you can get it for 10k and shrug keep a failed roll. Whereas before it needed a slightly confused coach to absentlymindedly misclick the skill selection.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 06, 2023 - 18:48 Reply with quote Back to top

In the former rulesets Blitz! event was stronger, that made taking Kick more appealing, I guess.
As an agile team coach I used to take Kick early, now I don't do it anymore.
It's nice to have it at 10 TV, but I don't aim to buy it at 20 TV.
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