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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2022 - 14:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks! Anyway, it's already a super work so far, we are nitpicking it a bit to improve it further, hopefully. Razz
Malmir



Joined: May 20, 2008

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2022 - 17:26 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm beginning to wonder if that's all it is - possibly if they have only a couple of teams I may not have noticed the league type. I will keep an eye out and try to check.

Sambre wrote:
I think the not allowed to offer matches message turns up when you try to offer a game to a team in the wrong format. An SL team or a Ranked team to a Competitive team or a BB20 to a BB16 team and vice versa. Is this right ? Or is there something more to that ?
Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2022 - 19:46
FUMBBL Staff
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In the currently deployed version of gamefinder 2.0, the following is a list of constraints will prevent a match from being played:

- Divisions not being the same
- Coach being the same
- Either coach being locked out from competitive games (site staff control)
- Either team not being "active" (aka ready to play)
- Either team being zero TV (obscure edge case)
- Either team being already in an active match
- One team being in a tournament where the opponent is not the next match
- Rulesets are different
- Leagues are different and either league has disabled cross-league matches
- Last played coach for either team is the corresponding opponent (no repeat-games against the same coach for a given team)
- Either coach has played the other in the most recent three competitive division games (C, B and R currently, will of course drop to C only once the latter two are sunset)
- TV restrictions are outside of what's allowed ("rookie protection")

All these limit the ability for gamefinder to offer the match, but because I am not 100% confident of this being correctly implemented, gamefinder also does an API call to the site to double-check prior to launching the match. If there is a match that the gamefinder allows, but the site doesn't (using the same-old restrictions as have been in place "for ever"), you'll get an error message with some hopefully descriptive error message (or at least I can narrow down what it means, and why).

The problem with this stuff is that it's incredibly hard to test without actually pushing the gamefinder 2.0 onto everyone on the site. It's virtually impossible for a small group of people to test this stuff for what I hope is fairly obvious reasons.

So basically, if you are unable to offer a particular match, you can refer to the list above and see what the limitation might be. If you're getting an error message when you use the "start game" button within gamefinder 2.0, I would like to know which teams are involved and what the exact message is (preferrably on Discord so I can act on it before the teams move on to other games.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2022 - 20:05 Reply with quote Back to top

christer wrote:
Last played coach for either team is the corresponding opponent (no repeat-games against the same coach for a given team)


Is that active for the League division? If so, does it matter if either match is a tournament match?
I think that [L]eague would be better off with out it.

Christer wrote:
Either coach has played the other in the most recent three competitive division games (C, B and R currently, will of course drop to C only once the latter two are sunset)


Aren't [R] & [B] already "sunset"?

Is there any need to restrict them now?

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2022 - 21:16 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm under the impression that R and B teams will still be converting to C, so yes, the restriction would still be necessary there.
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2022 - 21:32 Reply with quote Back to top

I am sad that this update marks another step towards elitism and minmaxing on Fumbbl.
The new gamefinder is the cherrypicker's perfect wet dream.

Before you ask, I know this is not a constructive post and therefore I won't reply to any reply it might get. But I had to vent somewhere and I thought this was the best place because after all it's "feedback", even if a bitter one.

Sorry, you can now go on helping Christer on the technical and usability aspects of the new Gamefinder. And thanks to whoever created this for the time and the passion put in what is essentially free work.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2022 - 22:02 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:
I am sad that this update marks another step towards elitism and minmaxing on Fumbbl.
The new gamefinder is the cherrypicker's perfect wet dream.


Why elitism? Why minmaxing?

I thought that Box/Scheduler was the home of minmaxing. Also, an alternative to the picking.

Your attitude seems the most elitist one.

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Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2022 - 22:08
FUMBBL Staff
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JanMattys wrote:
I am sad that this update marks another step towards elitism and minmaxing on Fumbbl.
The new gamefinder is the cherrypicker's perfect wet dream.


What an unfortunate perspective. This new gamefinder is fundamentally doing the same thing as the previous one from a user's perspective. The changes improve visibility of existing teams and gets rid of some annoyances that existed in the old gamefinder.

You're essentially arguing that making a clearer user interface is pushing towards elitism and minmaxing, and is a "perfect wet dream" for cherry pickers, and that we should keep a worse interface for everyone because some people cherry pick?

The goals for the redesign were:
- Rebuild on a technical platform that makes it easier for me to work on it.
- Improve usability when there are people who activate dozens of teams
- Improve visibility into what other people are bringing
- Improve overall visibility of other people's names to strengthen the sense of community
- Improve filtering and functionality to make it more pleasant to use for teams in the L division
- Get rid of some niggling issues with the old gamefinder

No significant new information was added to the system, and it's mainly just structured differently. It's sad that you perceive this change as focused on making the site more elitist and catering for minmaxers rather than the overall improvement for everyone it's intended to be.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2022 - 22:23 Reply with quote Back to top

The more informations are displayed, the harder is minmaxing on a GF, so, I don't think the new GF has the purpose to help minmaxing. If that were its purpose then most roster informations would be hidden.
You can see the RRs and the roster composition (and the Apo, in the future, I guess). If you can see that, for example, an OWA team on GF has 0 RRs you can avoid it.
Minmaxing is a strategy on both GF and automatic MM, but it's more effective on automatic MM because you can't avoid the minmaxed team.
Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2022 - 22:54
FUMBBL Staff
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koadah wrote:
Is that active for the League division? If so, does it matter if either match is a tournament match?
I think that [L]eague would be better off with out it.


Good callout. They were but should obviously not have been so it's been corrected now.

The checks that now rely on the team being in a competitive division are:

- Either coach being locked out from competitive games (site staff control)
- Last played coach for either team is the corresponding opponent (no repeat-games against the same coach for a given team)
- Either coach has played the other in the most recent three competitive division games (C, B and R currently, will of course drop to C only once the latter two are sunset)
- TV restrictions are outside of what's allowed ("rookie protection")
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2022 - 23:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks Christer!!

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Strider84



Joined: Jun 03, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 09, 2022 - 23:56 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:
I am sad that this update marks another step towards elitism and minmaxing on Fumbbl.
The new gamefinder is the cherrypicker's perfect wet dream.


Let me fix that for you:

Thank you very much Christer for releasing this awesome update of the gamefinder!
I'm already looking forward to the new Blackbox release because I'm more of an automated matchmaking player as I have tremendous fear of being cherry picked because I'm so nice and always accept unfavorable matchups.

But as always, no rush because we appreciate it a lot that you guys are doing this all in your free time!
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 10, 2022 - 00:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Now that's slightly unfair to JanMattys, he's barely touched box, if ever.

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Voorn



Joined: Nov 23, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 11, 2022 - 18:52 Reply with quote Back to top

I prefer the older version. Although, I have to ask, where are all the players at? i remember you used to see a whole load of folks on there looking and trying to play. nowadays the most you see is 4 at peak hours usually 2 or 3 and it seems that those are only there to see who else is because they do not respond to game requests and dont send any out.
You used to be able to play game after game but now your lucky if you get to play one a day.

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 11, 2022 - 20:54 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm having an easier time getting games and an easier time with the whole thing in general, even though traffic has fallen off to almost nothing. I think this is a huge improvement. Very glad. I can log on, and if there are just a few teams I pick the most interesting or balanced (or seemingly-balanced-but-I-think-I-know-better) or whatever kinda matchups, offer them, and often snag a good game. By contrast, if there are a bunch of teams my inner picker comes out, and I go fishing until either I find a bite or someone offers me something non-stupid. Funny enough, it takes about the same amount of time to get a game either way ... just like with the last gamefinder. Only it's a better experience in the meantime.

Now, how do we get traffic up? I guess that's a discussion for another thread.

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