MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jul 07, 2022 - 12:51 |
 
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I see. I asked because, if most people start every Season with new teams, then the trimming effect of Season Re-Draft is not that important.
If many coaches start with brand new teams then it's almost like starting a new league every time. So, maybe, the balance could be more due to re-starting every Season with new teams rather than to BB2020 ruleset. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Jul 07, 2022 - 12:58 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | I see. I asked because, if most people start every Season with new teams, then the trimming effect of Season Re-Draft is not that important.
If everybody (or many coaches) start with brand new teams then it's almost like starting a new league every time. |
Maybe this is in part true. But I must also point out that no team that was "kept" felt overpowered compared to newcomers, and I think this is important. And it's entirely due to the effect of the forced tv trim.
Chaos Dwarfs, Lizardmen, Dark Elves, and my Undead, all had very close games throughout the seasons.
Feels very balanced: you skill up more slowly and the newcomers catch up quickly. Plus they get inducements. But you start with better positionals and key players with two or more skills that you can combo, while they don't.
So far it seems like both old and new teams have a decent shot at the title, and a very decent shot at playoffs at least. How strong a shot, that of course depends on the race. Chaos first season sucks hard. Orcs first season are pretty strong.
This way, every coach feels "free" to either keep the team if it's fun, or try something else. Feels much better than being "forced" into one choice because the other one is subpar.
Keep in mind that this is a RL league. It takes up to 16-20 weeks to play it all. We greatly value the fact that no one drops mid-season, so keeping all options equally fun and not boring is of paramount importance. If you got bored with your team, but knew that taking a new one would mean 16 weeks of slog and getting beaten to a pulp, you would be left with two "bad" choices, and we can't have that. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Jul 07, 2022 - 13:09 |
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| PainState wrote: | | JanMattys wrote: | | we dont like three-points wins because we don't want to penalize ties too much). |
In KPL we despise the tie so much it is outlawed.
This is a direct quote from tomb king Settra…â€ties are an abomination to Blood Bowl, a foreign concept from the Empire and their love of boring Blood Bowl, there must be a victory at the end of a match, if not, then why even play?†|
I agree that Settra rules. And we are weak for even considering ties.
/bows |
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Samaranthae
Joined: Aug 30, 2006
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Jul 07, 2022 - 13:13 |
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I havent played in a redraft league yet. But yes if it succeeds in making new teams not feel hopeless against a team that is in its second season that is a benefit.
If it means that you dont feel like you have built anything in your second season? that is a cost. No wonder people reroll.
In real life leagues where you may play one or two seasons a year. You dont want to have a rebuilding or a building season. But on fumbbl i liked the idea of having a low expectation season. Its ok i dont need to win it first year. I need a year to build.
But im gonna throw this out there. When you have a beginner conference and higher conferences. Like WIL has, like SWL has, like a bunch of other multi conferenced leagues have. Is this really necessary at all?
So its a house rule that got made cannon, fun |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Jul 07, 2022 - 13:44 |
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Sounds like this redraft thingy is cool and really works in a small TT league. I play in a league with around 500 active coaches and some of them play 30 games a week on one team and some of them play one game a month. I wonder how this redrafted thing is going to work out in my league? It seems to work great for TT but I have concerns this is going to turn into a cluster in my league. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Jul 07, 2022 - 13:48 |
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| PainState wrote: | | Sounds like this redraft thingy is cool and really works in a small TT league. I play in a league with around 500 active coaches and some of them play 30 games a week on one team and some of them play one game a month. I wonder how this redrafted thing is going to work out in my league? It seems to work great for TT but I have concerns this is going to turn into a cluster in my league. |
I have no idea. And you are right. Games Workshop produces a Tabletop Game and put out rules to improve the tabletop average experience. It doesn't care about systems working for 500+ people playing online. I suspect that it is because tabletop sells miniatures and paints, and online doesnt.
On the other hand, if GW doesn't care about Fumbbl, Fumbbl cares about GW. It's always been Christer's vision to simulate as close as possible the tabletop rules. So there's that. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Jul 07, 2022 - 13:51 |
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Matt did bring up a good point with jan about agent fees or redraft ageing of players. I am cool with redrafting in C but ageing of players iam against big time…the compromise for me is that redraft ageing does not kick in until a player has played 3 to 4 seasons. |
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Samaranthae
Joined: Aug 30, 2006
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Jul 07, 2022 - 13:59 |
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AND ANOTHER THING.
yeah ok so i did the maths a decade ago on WDL scores.
But you have 2 arguments of disincentive draws or punishing draws too much can go in circles.
Generally i think in any 3 game spread WWL>DDD>WLL
3-1-0 fails this in a way that suggests losing WLL is equal to DDD
check out 2.5-1-0 or 5-2-0
It puts everything where it should be tbh |
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Samaranthae
Joined: Aug 30, 2006
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Jul 07, 2022 - 14:03 |
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im not familiar with the ageing rules in bb2020. I am only familiar with agent fees.
Did ageing used to be when you got a new skill?
I like tieing things into how many seasons or games played rather than when a skill is acquired.
I think i'd prefer an age that starts to hurt after 3-4 seasons |
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C0ddlefish
Joined: Sep 17, 2019
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Jul 07, 2022 - 14:15 |
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Ageing doesn't exist in 2020 rules. You are only forced to lose healthy skilled players when you can no longer afford to redraft them at the end of a season.
You'll have a redraft budget cap, and it will come down to whether you can afford to keep that player (at the expense of other skilled players in the team most likely). the Player will cost starting TV + Skills TV + (20k Agent Fee * number of Seasons played).
How quickly these choices come around will be dependant on Season Length, Redraft Cap, and how redraft budgets are calculated. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jul 07, 2022 - 14:31 |
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| PainState wrote: | | Matt did bring up a good point with jan about agent fees or redraft ageing of players. |
I never talked about Ageing in BB2020, I always talked about Season Re-Draft. There is no such thing as Ageing in BB2020, just Agent fees (+20k player's cost per each Season he has played).
That said, if you don't like Season Re-Draft, you are free to set your private league with a super long Season, that will allow to develop players for longer, but at that stage you could not even bother with Season Re-Draft at all.
Please notice that BB2020 rules are supposed to work with a Season Re-Draft, though, so, if you don't use it or you play with a too long Season then you are altering the purpose of the rules for running leagues.
Horses for courses, you are free to do whatever you like, as long as you have some people to play with your own house rules.
BB2020 ruleset is quite enjoyable overall, although far from perfection, but if you like to build Legends for the narrative's/background's sake (perfectly legit) then it's not good for you. Honestly, it's better to spend the time to play some BB2020 games rather than just complaining about it.
I'm not against whining, but it's nice to play a bit too (if not else, for having more reasons to bitch about the rules!).  |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Jul 07, 2022 - 14:59 |
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Oh come on man...I have played 2 games of BB2020 in the last week. I tried last night but could not get online.
Iam sorry I offended the masses by calling agent fees a subtle BB2020 ageing of players. A lot of sensitive dudes around here when it comes to the letter of the terminology. Iam sorry for bringing back up the old ageing system. I like to call a spade a spade and that is what agent fee is, a new term for a very old concept. But it seems the new hotness of Blood Bowl has rebranded ageing.
Thank you for that intro matt...Yes, I do have my own league, going on season #9 and it will kick off in August. Link to the league on that nice looking EPL lion at the bottom.
BTW I thought I stated I was perfectly fine with season redraft? Did my position change from 4 posts ago? |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jul 07, 2022 - 16:05 |
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No offence taken, just you put in my mouth Ageing word when I didn't use it. That's it.
I know you have your league, there is a huge logo as reminder, so it was impossible I forgot it. I generally talked. Also, you wrote this:
| PainState wrote: | | I play in a league with around 500 active coaches and some of them play 30 games a week on one team and some of them play one game a month. I wonder how this redrafted thing is going to work out in my league? It seems to work great for TT but I have concerns this is going to turn into a cluster in my league. |
So I thought you were concerned about BB2020 working well in your own KPL league.
Sorry if I misunderstood you. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Jul 07, 2022 - 16:10 |
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Sir, Iam flattered that you think the KPL has around 500 teams. 😀
And yea my “cheeky†description of C was not very well stated, although Jan picked up on it. I quess “human†coaches think alike when it comes to Blood Bowl. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jul 07, 2022 - 16:16 |
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Well, then you should be proud that I considered you the Commissioner of a 500 teams private league.
"My" was a bit misleading.
All fair and good.  |
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