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Chrisdekok



Joined: Aug 09, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2022 - 19:11 Reply with quote Back to top

This post is about the Keyser Sözes of FUMBBL and some ramblings (and questions) about concessions.

Sooner or later you will encounter one of the Keyser Söze coaches.
These coaches will not only hopelessly outplay you but also destroy your team in a few turns. It doesn't matter how unbashy their teams look or how high AV your players have. If they can manage as much as a 1 die block on your big guy on turn 1 (they always will) he will be dead.
I recently encountered one of these coaches and the funny thing is I knew it already before the game started by just looking at his stats, name and picture🙂. My team was decimated in 3 turns I think.

I don't mind losing to good coaches but I have an aversion to getting my players killed (probably why I almost only play bash). My preferred response is to handle it the Keyser Söze way, concede and retire my team. Probably all teams that played my team before should also be retired but that might be hard to enforce.

I know there are some coaches who are angered by concessions. In my case I like to destroy the opponents team and collect skulls for the Throne of Blood (hypocrisy I know) but I'm never angry when an opponent concedes. Usually opponent is fooled and still have a chance to at least draw and when the situation is really hopeless why shouldn't they be allowed to concede?

Now for the questions.
What are the current FUMBBL rules for concessions? Rulebook states penalties for concessions and benefits for the winner.

I think FUMBBL has some additional rules for when concessions are allowed. In the help section the rules are not clearly spelled out only that there need to be in game merit for concessions. I think I read somewhere you are allowed to concede after taking 2 CAS but that might be wrong. Reading older threads it sounds like you should be banned for conceding but I think that is somewhat relaxed now.

So what are the current rules and why are coaches angry at concessions? Is it not enough to win do you also need to humiliate opponents? This last question is not especially targeted against the Keyser Sözes as they typically handle the situation with calm and dignity.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2022 - 20:05 Reply with quote Back to top

What
mekutata



Joined: May 03, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2022 - 20:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Generally a no go.
Personally I think conceding is usually quite egocentric. A coach finds maybe 1 or 2 hours to spend sparetime playing bb, then they roll and play gud and suddenly the opponent concedes during the game, now the coach won't have time to play another game and leaves without the satisfaction of having played a full game.

Honestly, I don't really get your logic there. Playing for the Throne, but aversion against your own players getting killed?

Regarding the official rules, 2 CAS sounds actually like not really a lot. And I am curious where you might have read about "relaxed" rules.

In the help section stated:
"Concessions

Concessions are to be made only when there is merit for them.
In this context, merit means that the conceding team needs a reasonable in-game reason for conceding. The team taking excessive casualties is one acceptable reason to concede. Other reasons include having a very distinct lack of players left to play with, or being clearly outplayed in terms of touchdowns.
Conceding when none of the above circumstances are fulfilled will require admin approval.
If you are unsure if your particular game qualifies for a concession, please consult the FUMBBL administration for a ruling.
A match where the administration rules that a concession is acceptable, even though it does not fulfil the policy stated here will have its match report page marked to reflect this."

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PeteW



Joined: Aug 05, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2022 - 20:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Fancy a game? I have some nice gentle black orcs...

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"Jesus loves me this I know, 'cos my Bible tells me so." MrMojo - where did you go?
Endrophil



Joined: Nov 16, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2022 - 20:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Letz go my snotling friend...
Chrisdekok



Joined: Aug 09, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2022 - 20:29 Reply with quote Back to top

I understand the argument that it is more fun to beat the opponents player to a bloody pulp for 16 turns and score 5 TDs than just winning on concession after a few turns. But if it's egocentric to concede then what is it to demand your opponent to endure this and not allow a concession even when it is in the rules. If an opponent concedes quickly I'm more than happy as I often have time to start a new game.

Is the benefits for winning on concession to small? Should winner be awarded more MVPs and more gold?

I don't find it so strange that I like to kill opponents player while not liking my own players to get killed. I think many coaches feel like that even if they don't admit it. A little like liking when you win but not liking when opponent win.

I have no honor to defend and I'm not ashamed to concede, I just don't really get the anger when opponent concede. Opponent already recognised that you are the superior coach and handed you the victory.
awambawamb



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2022 - 20:33 Reply with quote Back to top

ah, if only OBBA could still be a thing... and... old KPL...

someone call that percentage guy, he's going to have a friend!

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"la virtù sta nel cielo e nella terra, ma anche nelle nuvole e nelle stelle"

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Last edited by awambawamb on Nov 21, 2022 - 20:35; edited 1 time in total
Chrisdekok



Joined: Aug 09, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2022 - 20:33 Reply with quote Back to top

And when competing in ToB there is an award for most concessions so every concession is welcome. Plus you get extra gold to scumm next opponent.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2022 - 21:17 Reply with quote Back to top

looking at it from a league standpoint:
if one team concedes then:
- the other team does not take any extra damage that they might have taken. this directly impacts the other teams in the league.
- the conceding team ALSO doesn't take any extra damage that they might have taken. this also directly impacts the other teams in the league.
- the winning team may not get as many touchdowns or casualties as they might have taken. often for tiebreakers, this can be a Big Deal.
- conversely, if the tiebreakers are on touchdown or casualty delta, then the conceding team may actually do better than they should have. this can be a Big Deal.
Chrisdekok



Joined: Aug 09, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2022 - 21:42 Reply with quote Back to top

I usually don't play in league but I get that concessions have more impact there. Why is a conceded game counted as 1-0 shouldn't 3-0 be more appropriate.
awambawamb



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2022 - 22:27 Reply with quote Back to top

what's the difference from 1-0 to 3-0? a boost to the ego?
there's ice cream for that, or pizza. why not pizza and ice cream after as dessert. oh, and a damn good espresso after that.
wait, we were talking about concessions
I went a bit OT, I concede that

Nelphine wrote:
looking at it from a league standpoint:
(everything N said)

it's true also from a competitive standpoint, it's just not so evident

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"la virtù sta nel cielo e nella terra, ma anche nelle nuvole e nelle stelle"

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mekutata



Joined: May 03, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2022 - 22:37 Reply with quote Back to top

The thing is - especially if you enjoy playing ToB - that you are dependant on your opponent's gud will to invest time to play a full game even if it goes south.

If they'd call it a day after suffering just 2 CAS from your MorgnOgre squads you'd hardly ever get all the pows to satisfy your lust for pixelkills.
So in response to that you can respect the more common appetite for a full game of bb drama. Maybe they even have their own weird unique aims. These elfs really want to play teh ball and score as much as possible, or those angry dusty newscasters want to satisfy their 16 fouls/game quota. If someone takes time to play a board game they more often want to play a full session.

Remember also from the fumbbl rules page: "Once a game is started or scheduled, you are committed to it and you are expected to play it through."

Personally I strongly believe this attitude helped fumbbl to have the best available quality in open play environment for bb.

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2022 - 22:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Chrisdekok wrote:
I understand the argument that it is more fun to beat the opponents player to a bloody pulp for 16 turns and score 5 TDs than just winning on concession after a few turns. But if it's egocentric to concede then what is it to demand your opponent to endure this and not allow a concession even when it is in the rules. If an opponent concedes quickly I'm more than happy as I often have time to start a new game.

Is the benefits for winning on concession to small? Should winner be awarded more MVPs and more gold?

I don't find it so strange that I like to kill opponents player while not liking my own players to get killed. I think many coaches feel like that even if they don't admit it. A little like liking when you win but not liking when opponent win.

I have no honor to defend and I'm not ashamed to concede, I just don't really get the anger when opponent concede. Opponent already recognised that you are the superior coach and handed you the victory.


If someone sets aside 90 minutes of time to play and you give up at the drop of a hat depriving them of the experience of playing the game, all due to you being barely interested if things get out of hand...

What's hard to understand about people giving you the business about it?
Chrisdekok



Joined: Aug 09, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2022 - 23:34 Reply with quote Back to top

The anti concession feelings seem to still be strong. If concessions are not allowed what about giving up in game but still playing it through, like letting knocked down players lie and just click through turns. I have experienced opponents doing this sometimes instead of conceding. Or does this not give a stimulating enough victory for the time pressed coaches?
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2022 - 23:46 Reply with quote Back to top

There's ways to go about soft giving up - there absolutely are times where basically being morose and doing the bare minimum with standing up players, making blocks/fouls is the right call and some amount of that can even be considered 'strategic'. Not always given context of games, leagues, etc etc. I've played so many games over the decade that I don't even think about it any longer but most coaches get it and play along since you are doing a bare minimum after getting blown up badly.
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