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Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Jul 08, 2022 - 20:57 Reply with quote Back to top

PainState wrote:
I can't team build at all. I just horde spp on the blitzes, pay the agent fees and play with 4 blitzes and a bunch of rookies. This is not unique to the human team, all teams deal with it.

They sure do but all you are really doing is effectively saying you have 1450 kgp, or 1500 kgp to 'redraft' with as you are not paying that 100 kgp to rehire 5 players because they got a free season.

With 1350 kgp and rehiring 5 players after 1 season your capped at 1250 TV.

For our League I have already worked out my plan for Dark Elves. I will rehire 2 Blitzers (Dodge, Side step) a Witch (Block, Tackle) and 1 Linemen, if any get good random skills. Giving me 1220 TV for the next season. During Season 2 I will be building up the other two Blitzers so they can carry over to Season 3. If I get lucky and get +AG on a player then that would change my plans for the next redraft.

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Lyracian.
PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 08, 2022 - 21:10 Reply with quote Back to top

@Lyacian

You are missing my point.

I want to redraft my human team with 400 TV to play with. If I have some players who have 30+ games I'm fine paying agent fees.

I think having to pay agent fees on players with 15+ games in C is bad for all teams in C...not just my special humans.

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PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 08, 2022 - 21:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Lyracian wrote:
theysure do but all you are really doing is effectively saying you have 1450 kgp, or 1500 kgp to 'redraft' with as you are not paying that 100 kgp to rehire 5 players because they got a free season.


OK now it makes sense to me what you are saying and it is now obvious you are missing my point.

Every team in C needs to redraft. All teams in C will have 400 to 360kpg to redraft their team.

Redraft means rehire skilled players or hire new players or add rerolls and some such. But you only have 360 to 400 kpg to do that.

If the agent fee kicks in at 15+ it effects a lot of rosters who are slow to develop, thus they do not get the 400 to 360 kpg on redraft they get that minus agent fees. It really hurts them in the long run.

Give teams the 30+ window and now they can grow and you can team build.

All teams start at 1350tv at redraft no way around that. So, yes, teams in season 1 to 3 will be able to retain maybe 100 TV in skills by not having to retire skilled players because of the gap in the agent fees for one season.

How is this bad? Everyone starts at 1350tv after season 2 or 3?

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PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 17, 2022 - 17:49 Reply with quote Back to top

So I had a week at the beach to mediate and contemplate some blood bowl.

I have now pinned it down to why I think agent fees are stupid and just another layer for team management that sounds cool but in essence does nothing, except to make sure you no longer can have a player with 392 games played.

The agent fee rule in essence makes you cheer when your player gets any form of MNG OR MNG-SI, maybe not the SI-ST result But all the others are ok to work with.

WHY?

Because it short circuits the Agent fee rule and in essence makes the players first season free of agent fees. That player will be able to play in 29 games before he takes on his first agent fee of 20K.

Does not matter when the MNG happens.

Lets say rookie team, your Blitzer gets a MNG in that game. When season ends at game 15 he will have only played in 14 games and not take on agent fees. This holds true no matter what game between game 1-14 this happens. That player will play in 29 games.

Now of course Blood Bowl is bloody and very punishing on pixel players. So, there is a very good chance most to all of your players will not actually make it to 29 games played.

But if they do, well........

Dont be sad when your player gets a MNG...it is actually a gift from NUFFLE and his blessing that you have found the work around to Agent Fees.

That is BB2020....You want to be injured (MNG) as a work around of the new rules.

Laughing Wink

Side not: this only works on a player for one season. The only way to make it work for two season is IF he actually survives long enough and plays enough games where he has taken on 15+ MNG results. So, yeah, it is a one shot deal.

BTW this work around works on any league that uses redraft with agent fees regardless of length of season. As long as the player takes on a MNG, he will get that season he played in for "free" or not take on agent fees at the required redraft period.

Also

IF you play in C..This only works IF you do not enter a tournament. Christer has stated that at the end of Tournaments in C you MUST redraft, so, once again....there is another work around for team building there.

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Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Jul 17, 2022 - 19:27 Reply with quote Back to top

@Painstate

Are you sure that is how it will work on Fumbbl when seasons are implemented? I was under the assumption that at the end of the season any player on the roster is considered to have played one season. It does not matter how many games a player was in, just how many seasons they participated in.

At some point it was said that while a season will always end after a team plays 15 matches, a coach could choose to end the season at any point and redraft. Hence you could play 5 matches with a rookie team and redraft but you would have to pay agent fees for any player you kept. (I don't know why anyone would want to do that, but it is how I understood it would work.)
C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Jul 17, 2022 - 19:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Yep I understand it to be as Kondor says. So even if a player is bought after game 14 of a 15 games season, they will still be seen as having played that season and require agents fees to redraft.

Early redraft was definitely discussed. The only purposes I really see it for are a) allowing teams to redraft in a league where they've got a forfeit result (e.g. everyone was played 15 games except two team where the game didn't get played), and b) if a team is wrecked and effectively want to reboot to rookie(ish) rather than limp through x more games
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 17, 2022 - 19:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah this is why I was hoping for a 'seasons played' field. That way it would be based on number of seasons (defined by number of redrafts they have participated in), instead of number of games. This doesn't make it a simple task though, so I'm not actually sure what the implemented version will look like.
C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Jul 17, 2022 - 19:59 Reply with quote Back to top

I've not thought about it loads but my logic is once you are beyond Season 1 then number of redrafts doesn't matter that much because every team will in the 1350TV + 15 games loop
PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 17, 2022 - 20:05 Reply with quote Back to top

By the rules agent fees are tied to games played by that player and not the team.

If agent fees are tied to the team, then it makes no sense. I hire a new Lino for game 15 at 50k and then redraft and for game 16 he costs 70k.

FUMBBL is the best place for agent fees because it is all automated. For table top leagues… they just ignore this, way to much work.

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 17, 2022 - 20:11 Reply with quote Back to top

i mean, that's exactly how it works in the leagues i've seen using it? and it really isn't that much work 'were you on the team before the redraft? yes? add 20k. were you on the team for a previous redraft? great, add 20k for each one.'
C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Jul 17, 2022 - 20:31 Reply with quote Back to top

And you just don't redraft a 1 game rookie with no SSP for the extra 20k.

Rules just say if they were on the teamsheet before Redraft the they incur the agents fee, whether that be after 1 or 15 games
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Jul 17, 2022 - 21:00 Reply with quote Back to top

PainState wrote:
By the rules agent fees are tied to games played by that player and not the team.


Care to state where this is written? I think you are wrong. Our league too counts every player on roster in the last game of the season, and who is alive at the end, as eligible for redrafting applying agent fees. Yes, even the rookie lino you bought just 16 turns before (which you obviously won't keep, btw).

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 17, 2022 - 21:25 Reply with quote Back to top

or the zombie you raised and who hasn't even played 1 turn yet Razz
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