koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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 Posted:
Aug 31, 2022 - 20:03 |
 
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 31, 2022 - 20:07 |
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Really?! Betrayer! 
koadah, you like big teams, you should play some games and build a high TV team before Season Re-Draft strikes.
So far, you could have spent 11 months by playing a high TV team. There is no Clawmb (nor PO), it's a paradise.  |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %31, %2022 - %20:%Aug; edited 1 time in total |
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Skant1
Joined: Aug 26, 2022
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Aug 31, 2022 - 20:13 |
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Hello Dakka, hello everyone, first post of mine here.
Dakka, I'm curious, can you put a bit of math in what you say? How can you say the system is not fair when you don't know all the variables? It could even be that the system gives an advantage to the higher CR coach.
Also, how can you pretend your proposal to be fair if the only other coach above you ranked with previous rules? |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 31, 2022 - 20:15 |
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Hello!
What are you talking about? Really, I don't get it. May you be more specific, please? |
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Skant1
Joined: Aug 26, 2022
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Aug 31, 2022 - 20:20 |
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Yes, sorry, I'm talking about your proposal of "CR filter" in the first post.
Are you proposing that with knowledge of the algorithm behind CR loss and gains? Can you make an example of a scenario you deem either unfair or a waste of time? |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 31, 2022 - 20:26 |
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There are 7 coach's skill brackets:
Rookie, Experienced, Veteran, Emerging Star, Star, Super Star, Legend.
Basically, if a coach plays vs a coach lower by 1 bracket or more, he will lose CR points in case of tie or loss, and gain few CR points in case of win.
The higher the bracket difference is, the fewer CR points you gain from a game vs a lower bracket coach.
Since Veteran is 4 brackets lower than Legend, that means that winning a game vs a Veteran typically gives me 0 or 0.1 CR points, if I lose or tie I lose lots of them (2 or 3).
Every game where I don't earn CR is a waste of time and a risk not worth the gain, for me, because I'm interested in gaining CR from games. If I don't gain CR from a game, I can just risk to lose it in the odd occurrance I get bad dice.
Most of times I win, but, according to statistics, even a very unlikely event can happen in the long run.
The odd times I lose or tie vs a Veteran I lose way more CR points than those I would have gained had I defeated him, this makes games vs Veteran a "bad bet". I'm risking 2 or 3 CR points to gain 0. You would never bet 2 or 3 € to win 0.
If you want to read about the CR in detail, here's a link (courtesy of ArrestedDevelopment), but it's quite long: https://fumbbl.com/p/blog&c=ArrestedDevelopment&id=22739
Anyway, the simple explanation is that playing vs too low bracket coaches is not worth the time and risk considering that I win 0 or very little CR points but I can lose many.
Ideally I should play vs Super Stars and Legends only, but this is not easy because the site has a small population. So a good and realistic compromise is playing vs Star or better coaches. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %31, %2022 - %20:%Aug; edited 2 times in total |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Aug 31, 2022 - 20:33 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | Really?! Betrayer!
koadah, you like big teams, you should play some games and build a high TV team before Season Re-Draft strikes.
So far, you could have spent 11 months by playing a high TV team. There is no Clawmb (nor PO), it's a paradise. |
Ha ha ha.
Who would they play against? You and the other two guys with big teams?
I'd probably do something that was on your lengthy list of "don'ts" and then even you wouldn't play me.  |
_________________
O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 31, 2022 - 20:35 |
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There is the Box, don't forget it. My rules were for GF only, but I don't play with GF anymore. You could activate in the Box and we could play. Also, you don't need to play vs me, there are other coaches with big teams, trust me. You could play for the sake of playing a high TV team before Season Re-Draft.
I have a MA 8 ST 5 Dwarf Runner, I never had such a freak in my BB career. You could build your freak too! |
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Skant1
Joined: Aug 26, 2022
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Aug 31, 2022 - 20:44 |
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Yes it's the elo system. Is that 0 gain actually just a rounding of a number lower than 0.1?
How do you know that the unlikely event of your loss of point vs a veteran isn't actually balanced out by your wins (as in: how do you know CR loss/gain isn't a 0 sum game)?
Would you consider you proposal fair for the coach that ranked before you?
Would you accept a total reset of the rankings in order to incorporate your proposal into the system? |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 31, 2022 - 20:49 |
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I don't know the details, but, in short (you have to trust me), vs Veteran the CR loss/win is not a 0 sum, it's a negative loss for me. I gain 0 if I win the game (or very close to 0), if I tie or lose the game I lose 2-3 points. This is not a 0 sum at all.
What do you mean with "ranked before you"? I don't understand this part. May you explain, please?
I'm open to reset rankings, if necessary, but many people, I guess, would not like that. Anyway, I didn't suggest to reset rankings. I just suggested an optional filter to avoid playing games vs coaches lower than Star (or, more generically, 4 brackets lower than mine). Nothing else. |
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Skant1
Joined: Aug 26, 2022
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Aug 31, 2022 - 21:02 |
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You are number 2 in CR ranking, correct? And I understand by reading the thread that the coach above you is much less active now than he was before.
Also, could it be that you experience the ranking system as a non 0 sum (in the coach CR comparison) because you play only high TV matches (as is my undertanding by reading the thread)? |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 31, 2022 - 21:10 |
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Today I lost 1 place, so I'm currently top 4 overall and top 3 in Competitive division.
I don't play only high TV matches. I activate some teams, mid-high TV atm. TV was not a factor, because there was no big TV gap.
It's true that TV gap is a factor affecting CR win-loss, but vs Veteran coaches I would lose CR (or gain 0) even with same TV teams.
An example: https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=4402032
2-0 win, 0 CR gained. |
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XpherAndTheAxes
Joined: Jun 20, 2020
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Aug 31, 2022 - 21:26 |
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Have i lost my mind or is it a common reaction to be confused by this?
Im struggling to see how you want only uneven games vs your equals, to show you are better than them.
You want to handicap an equal for your ego, and then suddenly if you lose it is because the game is broken?
If the game is broken then make your own version, id be happy to try it out. I love learning new games.
But if your only point here is that you want to win everything, if you lose its dice and if you tie then you heroically battled a great disparity in dice and teams, then shouldnt you just re-post in one of a few hundred of your identical posts?
If i recall correctly you spent ages in gamefinder when you used it, rejecting every game you were offered except from emerging stars and easy matchups? You declined my zombies with your wood elves and dark elves an uncountable number of times... You spent hours waiting for nothing instead of "wasting your time" by even trying to win a game.
It drives me INSANE popping on randomly and seeing rants from you or your disciples talking about how you hate the game, how you are the best at the game, how losing makes your opponent evil, tying shows your awesome skills and experience, and winning is just what should be expected of your grace.
Maybe you could use your ego and pride as a matchmaking tool? Maybe put a forum andnpost there when in game finder? Lean into a more arrogant and prideful persona, and lure people unto games in the spirit of roleplay.. or just get angry and troll the forums. That always works for you doesn't it? |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Aug 31, 2022 - 21:31 |
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Because I thought that playing vs you was not worth my time. It's not just about how a match is easy or hard, but about how much expected CR I can gain from it. Is that clear?
I played vs you in the Box:
https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=4256039
check the CR I gained: 0.04. I don't lie.
For the record, from a game I expect at least 0.5 CR gain. Fewer than 0.5 CR points = waste of time.
Focus on getting better, rather than attacking me on the forum, and play in the Box.
By the way, I don't have disciples. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %31, %2022 - %21:%Aug; edited 1 time in total |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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Aug 31, 2022 - 21:37 |
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Have you considered how much time have you wasted on others by ambushing them in box ? Or when some sorry new guy accidentally accepted your fair game offer without knowing you ? |
_________________
Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies.
Last edited by MerryZ on %b %31, %2022 - %21:%Aug; edited 1 time in total |
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