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Garion26



Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Post   Posted: May 03, 2022 - 15:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Playing in C starting a norse team.
Went with three rerolls, 2 Ulfs, 2 valkyries, the rest linemen. 3 games in 1-1-1 so far.

Now at 135K in the bank with prespecified plan to save for the Yhetee.

The more I think about it the less I think I want to add the Berserkers to the team.
For 90K compared to a 50K lineman same stat line with addition of frenzy and jump up and loss of thick skull and drunkard and of course Strength access.

Jump up of course was a nice bonus in CRP/bb2016 with piling on / mighty blow.

But it feels like that skill combo seems less worth it under BB 2020 particularly in a TV matchmaking environment like C.

My approach is save on the high SPP linemen to get guard (I've got one at 8 and one at 10 after three games.) On the low SPP linemen (a single lucky TD) take random Generals.

Am I missing something?
CrookfangRob



Joined: Jan 22, 2019

Post   Posted: May 03, 2022 - 15:45 Reply with quote Back to top

I think the same. I wouldn't add the yhetee either. Benefit of berserkers is S access, and as you have that (kind of) by saving SPPs on linos I don't see the value of a berseker. Mostly they just work as a lino in game as you often don't want to block/blitz with them because of how easily they are frenzy trapped.

Did I mention not bothering with the yhetee?
Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: May 03, 2022 - 16:23 Reply with quote Back to top

I think the answer for C division if you're going to pick your matchups is why bother with the Yhethee when you can probably bank gold, keep TV low (no extraneous skills and beer boars?) and just pick one of the stars that helps the most to shore up your weakness vs. that matchup.

So many options with the likes of Morg, Deeproot, Rumblelow, Skrorg (a Yhethee even), Griff, Helmut + bribes, Ivar etc.

There's basically a star solution to a skill you lack, and if you somehow don't have much gold left then you can just play up in TV and pick a winning matchup.
Azur



Joined: Nov 13, 2020

Post   Posted: May 03, 2022 - 16:30 Reply with quote Back to top

+1 with our fellow members.

Forget the Yhetee - imho, just an over-expansive unreliable toy. Spend your money for some bench. With their low armor, Norses tend to teleport quite quickly to the minibar, if you know what I mean...

About the blitzers : now, their only real advantage compared to the rest of their team is that they're.... sober. (i.e. GFI at 2+).
Garion26



Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Post   Posted: May 03, 2022 - 17:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Darn the Yhettee seemed fun oh well - loner no block is probably not the best deal on a team with so much block access.
Nobby_Nobbs



Joined: Jan 20, 2021

Post   Posted: May 03, 2022 - 17:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Blitzers do have S access for MB or Guard, so potentially useful for that

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 03, 2022 - 17:24 Reply with quote Back to top

About the Yhetee: another drawback is that Clawmb has been nerfed and there is no Piling On anymore.
In BB2016 I used the Yhetee, but he was rather hit or miss. Useful vs AV 9 teams if he got some CAS early but not so game changing in the long run. So, considering that Clawmb was stronger then and now it's weaker the Yhetee is less appealing.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: May 03, 2022 - 17:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Random skills on the linemen, preferably secondary but primary are good too.

General skills: 29/11 = 2.65
N: Block (1; 11 available)
S:
A: Dirty Player, Kick, Tackle (4x3)
B: Dauntless, Fend, Frenzy, Pro, Wrestle (3x5)
C: Strip Ball (2x1)
D: Sure Hands (0x1)
F: Shadowing (0x1)
Observations: only 2 bad skills, but no great ones. Good random skill territory.

Strength skills: 29/10 = 2.90
N: Strong Arm, Thick Skull (2; 10 available).
S: Grab, Guard, Mighty Blow (5x3)
A: Break Tackle, Juggernaut, Stand Firm (4x3)
B:
C: Brawler (2x1)
D: Pile Driver (0x1)
F: Arm Bar, Multiple Block (0x2)

Here, we also have a favorable case for randoms. There are 6 skills in the S and A columns, and if you don't get so lucky, you might opt to keep Brawler, or not, and let the player go if he gets Pile Driver, Multiple Block, or Arm Bar.

But yeah, you don't need Berserkers or the Yhetee: save the money to replace losses and keep a bench if you can. Yhetees are simply not good bigs anymore: Unchanneled Fury is worse than Wild Animal was, and Claw/MB is 150 perms to Cas (out of 1296) instead of 186 (vs. 9+ or better), which is one thing against AV10+ where MB alone is only 84, but against AV9+, your 150 for ClawMB compares to 130 for MB alone, and until your big skills up, you're stuck on 90 against AV8+ or higher.

Valkyries are kinda questionable at 95k, but you need them anyway because of Drunkard. You have my permission to start just one and use the savings for a reserve, then hire the second when you can. Ulfs are a good bargain for a good player, but they commit you to full TV, and you really can't afford chosen skills on Linemen for that reason. Also, Ulfs badly need Block and are too expensive for random skills, so they're going the chosen skill route and don't add relative value until the higher levels where their skills start stacking.

TLDR: go lean on player cost, lets you maintain a bench without your TV skyrocketing. To do that with Ulfs and Valkyries on the roster, that means taking random General (primary) and Strength (secondary) skills on linemen.

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Carthage



Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Post   Posted: May 03, 2022 - 20:21 Reply with quote Back to top

So, I know everyone's first instinct is to look at them as guard or mighty blow... But they might be one of the only pieces that could do the Stand Firm, Jump Up combo to mark cage corners. The problem with that combo is their low armor.
MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: May 03, 2022 - 20:29 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
Yhetees are simply not good bigs anymore: Unchanneled Fury is worse than Wild Animal was


I think I'm missing something - how is Unchanneled Fury worse than Wild Animal? Same chance of activation, you still keep your tackle zones on a failure. Animal Savagery is more reliable if you've got people to feed your Yeti, but that's not WA

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Kinks



Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: May 03, 2022 - 21:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Personally I didn't think so:

- Jump up isn't great on AV 7 (and is slightly less worth it if you field a pig).
- Frenzy is nice, but you already have upto 3 frenzy players, they are only Str 3 and Norse don't have much guard, so it can easily be made a burden, particaurly if your AV 7 team has some removals. Also, lino's might get frenzy on a rando - making them 60k.
- Strength Access. The remaining reason to have a blitzer was the cheap Str access. Is it still cheap access if you are paying 40k for that access?

That all said, now they have nerfed the lino's with drunkard you may have to take blitzers just to have some slightly more reliable players.

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greateagle



Joined: Sep 14, 2018

Post   Posted: May 03, 2022 - 23:43 Reply with quote Back to top

I think the reductionist, tv control argument probably holds sway here, but I started with one at 1000tv anyway. Frenzy gives you capability in lieu of tackle and you can really threaten the flanks. Yes, you’ve got it with your ulfs, but they’re not going to be your go-to blitzer until they get block which could be some way down the road and I like the S4 shoring up the flanks where they can easily get tagged.

Saying that, I’d never start with two and, depending on how the team progresses would definitely consider sacking them when I’ve got a few extra skills. I don’t rate the yhetee, and I don’t think you can afford the yhetee and blitzer(s).
Kinks



Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: May 04, 2022 - 01:20 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
Valkyries are kinda questionable at 95k, but you need them anyway because of Drunkard.

I feel like that sums up all of the Norse positionals now. Not particaurly good, but at least they don't have drunkard. Makes me wonder if GW's answer to people are taking all Norse lino teams because the positional suck was, hmmm....lets make the lino's suck harder.

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Seventyone



Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Post   Posted: May 04, 2022 - 09:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Kinks wrote:
JackassRampant wrote:
Valkyries are kinda questionable at 95k, but you need them anyway because of Drunkard.

I feel like that sums up all of the Norse positionals now. Not particaurly good, but at least they don't have drunkard. Makes me wonder if GW's answer to people are taking all Norse lino teams because the positional suck was, hmmm....lets make the lino's suck harder.
....but thicc skull is so good (or is it)?

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PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: May 04, 2022 - 09:45
FUMBBL Staff
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JackassRampant wrote:
Some stuff with numbers he didnt explain or justify


If you are going to use numbers and seem all mathsy, maybe use ones you explain? and while of course most of us think of things as portions of 1296 (why wouldn't we? such a handy number to throw around) i hear percentages are hip with the kids. I am not sure i agree with your tier lists, though those ARE very 'now', and you are missing out the opportunity cost and time factor in your calculations. By the time i am at your gamble point, especially for the secondary, i am also nearer to choice, so timing within the season, and overall aims of the team, will be important, as will prior gambling results both team wise and individually.

I do agree general skill primary gambling seems a very good deal on linemen. Secondaries is still 'jury out' to me.

I happen to agree with most of the major points of the thread so far:

Yeti's are bloat, and unreliable, but fun. I suspect the Yhetee isnt worth it it any circumstance.

Blitzers seem irrelevant to me, for the same 90TV i can have a guard lineman, seems better.

Valkyries are essential, one for sure, 2 maybe.

Ulf's seem to be where any guard and mb is coming from, which is fine, they are a little expensive but very good.

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