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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2022 - 20:56 Reply with quote Back to top

"a +AG, Break tackle Ogre" would cost 200k


Jaguar Blocker base cost = 110k

1st skill for 6SPP = Block, so now cost 130k
2nd skill stat 20SPP, get +STR, now cost 210k
3rd skill for 12SPP = Break Tackle, now cost 230k
4th skill stat 28SPP, get +MV, now cost 250k

Total 66SPP

If you don't roll STR until 3rd skill, ie Block > MV > STR > BT it'd take 6+20+24+16 = 66SPP
If you don't roll STR until 4th skill, ie Block > MV > BT > STR it'd take 6+20+24+28 = 78SPP

The chances of getting STR on your 1st attempt is 1/8 or 12.5%
The chances of getting STR by your 2nd attempt is 1-(7/8)^2 or 23.4%
The chances of getting STR by your 3rd attempt is 1-(7/8)^3 or 33.0%
Chrisdekok



Joined: Aug 09, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2022 - 21:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Ogre also need Block for a fair comparison so its a 240k Ogre vs a 230k Jaguar. Ogre is more durable and has MB but Jaguar has all other advantages.
amazingprizzini



Joined: Dec 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2022 - 21:05 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not so concerned with rolling lucky stats and turning them into absolute monsters, but just normal or double skill rolls. Yes, a strength 5 Jaguar is terrifying, but it's not something we can count on.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2022 - 21:10 Reply with quote Back to top

In a league or tabletop etc you can't really
But in [C] it's perpetual so monsters are definitely possible

Actually 66SPP in a single season is possible; I've got a ghoul who got Block, Sidestep, +MV, +MV in 13 games


But ok, without AG/ST, I think Jaguars are going to be best with Block, Guard, then Stand Firm / Mighty Blow as mentioned. Then probably +AV +AV
amazingprizzini



Joined: Dec 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2022 - 21:21 Reply with quote Back to top

yeah, they're definitely possible, they're just unlikely unless you are willing to churn through players.
Chrisdekok



Joined: Aug 09, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2022 - 21:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Blodgefirm Blocker will be difficult to remove if it can mark ball carrier and has some supports, especially as it has defensive and ST4. It is still easy to dodge away from, guess there is no good solution for that. Shadowing is bad and you probably don't want diving tackle on a blocker.
Carthage



Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2022 - 21:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Blodge firm is the obvious build for the blockers. I think its probably better than going Mighty blow first fwiw, but I also don't like relying on removals. She can blast off a cage corner and just sit there and be unmoveable marking a ball carrier. Tackle obviously improves that. I'd probably have both built that way with guard and just wreck cages for free.
Chrisdekok



Joined: Aug 09, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2022 - 21:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Tackle might cost opponent a re-roll but isn't reliable to stop dodging away. Do diving Tackle modifier count also for a re roll of a failed dodge when it is used?
amazingprizzini



Joined: Dec 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2022 - 23:26 Reply with quote Back to top

tackle is always great on your main blitzers, as these blockers should be. (as compared to the Amazon Blitzers, who I'm still trying to figure out how to best use them.)
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 16, 2022 - 15:48 Reply with quote Back to top

To continue this thread but about the Python Warrior Thrower,
They have:
Dodge, On the Ball, Pass, Safe Pass

IMO On the Ball makes them worth the 80k, eg when you need to score in 2 turns or something, as the roster isn't fast. Also the passing potential would help that type of drive.
On the other hand, paying +20k for Leader makes them 100k, which doesn't save much compared to a Linewoman + a Reroll at 110k


Anyway, the 9x remaining Passing skills they don't have are:
Accurate, Cannoneer, Cloud Burster, Dump-Off, Fumblerooskie, Hail Mary Pass, Leader, Nerves of Steel, Running Pass

I think I'd probably just roll Randoms on that list at 10k each?
(Even if you get a bad one, it just means the remaining pool is now better for the next random roll)
BeanBelly



Joined: Nov 14, 2019

Post   Posted: Nov 16, 2022 - 16:07 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd never roll a random passing skill.

I'm not that keen on the Python Warrior Thrower, but agree with you On the Ball is real useful when you need to score in 2 turns.

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amazingprizzini



Joined: Dec 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 16, 2022 - 16:09 Reply with quote Back to top

I think they're a pretty addition to the roster. Safe pass will save you from a disaster sometimes.

I've got 2 on my team, which is probably a little much. But it is fun against elves for the on the ball move when they pass.

I've been building them as normal zon handlers- sure hands, block, but they might be an interesting choice to save up for a stat increase since they'll oftne be handling the ball.
Carthage



Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 16, 2022 - 17:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Sp00keh wrote:
To continue this thread but about the Python Warrior Thrower,
They have:
Dodge, On the Ball, Pass, Safe Pass

IMO On the Ball makes them worth the 80k, eg when you need to score in 2 turns or something, as the roster isn't fast. Also the passing potential would help that type of drive.
On the other hand, paying +20k for Leader makes them 100k, which doesn't save much compared to a Linewoman + a Reroll at 110k


Anyway, the 9x remaining Passing skills they don't have are:
Accurate, Cannoneer, Cloud Burster, Dump-Off, Fumblerooskie, Hail Mary Pass, Leader, Nerves of Steel, Running Pass

I think I'd probably just roll Randoms on that list at 10k each?
(Even if you get a bad one, it just means the remaining pool is now better for the next random roll)


If you want to be a TV bully, you can roll randoms until one hits leader then drop a reroll so now you have a 10k reroll and 50 in TV savings.
amazingprizzini



Joined: Dec 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 16, 2022 - 17:48 Reply with quote Back to top

they're not great for most drives, but they are critical when you need to score in 2 or sometimes 3 turns.

Not the most efficient player in terms of team rating value, but they do have a (sometimes critical) role on the team.

BeanBelly wrote:
I'd never roll a random passing skill.

I'm not that keen on the Python Warrior Thrower, but agree with you On the Ball is real useful when you need to score in 2 turns.
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Nov 18, 2022 - 14:11 Reply with quote Back to top

what's the impression regarding randoms?

still good on linewomen, don't bother on positionals? same old same old?

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