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Poll
Who is the worst positional in the game?
Amazon - Python Warrior Thrower
2%
 2%  [ 4 ]
Chaos Renegade - Renegade Skaven
2%
 2%  [ 4 ]
Chaos Renegade - Renegade Thrower
15%
 15%  [ 22 ]
Dark Elf - Assassin
16%
 16%  [ 23 ]
Dwarf - Troll Slayer
0%
 0%  [ 1 ]
High Elf - Thrower
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Imperial - Imperial Throwers
13%
 13%  [ 19 ]
Lizardmen - Chameleon Skink
5%
 5%  [ 8 ]
OWA - Old World Human Thrower
3%
 3%  [ 5 ]
OWA - Old World Dwarf Blockers
25%
 25%  [ 36 ]
Wood Elf - Thrower
2%
 2%  [ 3 ]
Orc - Thrower
11%
 11%  [ 17 ]
Total Votes : 142


MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2023 - 13:48 Reply with quote Back to top

About the HE Thrower: Cloud Burster is bad, I agree. He would be better off without Cloud Burster and cheaper.

About DE: as I said, play some games and you will see. Smile I played more than 100 games with BB2020 DE and that's my experience. I tried to use the DE Runner just as Leader caddy and as pure Runner, it didn't work. The last thing I have to try is a PA 2+ DE Runner because, as weird as it may sound, DE are the Elven team most needing a passing game due to lack of speed. The other 3 are fast enough to run the ball even if outnumbered and have a good passing game. DE lack speed and passing (the emergency passing game, to be more accurate, not implying that DE should have a default good passing game). Even if you are not going to actually pass, having a decent 5+ or 4+ Long Bomb and Long Pass option can affect how the opponent plays their turns.


Last edited by MattDakka on Jan 27, 2023 - 13:51; edited 2 times in total
DoctorMidnight



Joined: Jul 07, 2022

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2023 - 13:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
DoctorMidnight wrote:
BTW: the HE thrower is imho one of the best throwers in the game - why do you propose him in your list, Garion?


Because of his cost I'd rather have an 80k player and not have cloud burster personally. However I agree he is a decent player.


I agree with you - the thrower should be cheap enough to allow you to start with 2 blitzers, a thrower AND a catcher.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2023 - 13:54 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:

About DE: as I said, play some games and you will see. Smile


there is a world outside fumbbl ya know Razz

I still disagree with you, and that's okay. However... in your favour, starting without one is your better starting roster imo

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2023 - 13:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:

there is a world outside fumbbl ya know Razz

Heretic! Razz

Garion wrote:

I still disagree with you, and that's okay. However... in your favour, starting without one is your better starting roster imo

Indeed.
DoctorMidnight



Joined: Jul 07, 2022

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2023 - 14:16 Reply with quote Back to top

2 Khaine's victims-to-be gave their vote to the DE assassin.
But they didn't give us the reason(s) why.

A shame, 'cause they're probably already dead as I'm writing these lines...
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2023 - 14:32 Reply with quote Back to top

About the DE Assassin: BB2020 Shadowing is worse and Assassin PA is 5+, like a Troll!
The only improvement over former DE Assassin is MA 7, but still it doesn't make the BB2020 DE Assassin worth the cost.
mekutata



Joined: May 03, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2023 - 14:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Pie is the worst.

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C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2023 - 14:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Who voted Renegade Skaven? I really want to understand that logic. Could kinda understand in 2016 rules but now?
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2023 - 16:27 Reply with quote Back to top

ok, i'm doing this differently, to see if i come to any conclusions, I'm going to do worst positional by roster

Elves:
Pro Elf - Thrower, but overall, everyone on the team is good
Wood Elf - Thrower, omg its so expensive for no reason
High Elf - Thrower, omg its so expensive
Dark Elf - Assassin, yes the runner is bad, but.. assassin is still worse.

Dash:
Skaven - is there a bad player on this team?? i guess thrower
Human - also no bad players, probably linemen
Imperial Nobility - are there any good players on this team?? but the thrower is the worst
Lizardman - chameleon skink, but having 1 of them is pretty solid
Amazon - there are no bad players. sure the thrower isn't perfect, but they have 3 non dodge skills, and one of them is great and they still have dodge!

Dead:
Vampire - hahahaha, well thralls are terrible i guess
Necromantic - such an expensive team. all the players are good, but they're SO expensive. wraith.
Undead - all the players are great, but you don't need 4 of them, so ghouls are the worst
Khemri - with the changes, i like all of their players. i guess thro-ra still have problems

Bash:
Old World Alliance - yes some people like them. yes i still think they suck. The Dwarf Runner is absolutely awful though (35k for.. sure hands and loner?? no thank you. yeah and thick skull, no)
Norse - its a toss up between Beer Boars and the second Valkyrie
Black Orc - hahahahaha omg, Black Orcs
Dwarf - *insert dwarven marching song* i guess the second Runner
Orc - the orc thrower is absolutely terrible

Mutants:
Chaos Pact - weeee are so terrible... my friends! but, the thrower.. is the end....
Chaos Dwarf - welp, i've avoided it until now, but.. the enslaved minotaur is just garbage
Chaos - there are no bad players on this team. so, again i cop out, and pick the chaos ogre.
Khorne - the bloodspawn is crap. why is it that only mutants have terrible big guys?
Nurgle - bloaters are so godawful overpriced. rotters for everyone!

Stunty:
Underworld - the skaven linerats
Ogre - the snotlings. oh wait, they aren't even cool snotlings anymore. they're even worse gnoblars!
Halfling - the halflings
Goblin - the fanatic
Snotling - fun hoppers. they might hop, but that isn't fun!

In the end, I then say.. the Old World Alliance Dwarf Runner is the worst of them all. And it's not even in the options!
Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2023 - 17:27 Reply with quote Back to top

All of the Throwers and pseudo-Throwers listed are at least Leader caddies and useful in some formats because of that.

I don’t know what the answer is, now that Slann Blitzers don’t exist and I can’t suggest a Pump Wagon. Almost everything sees some play in some format or other. Is the most fringe positional of all not the Dwarf Deathroller? That’s a big chunk of change.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2023 - 17:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Nelphine wrote:

Human - also no bad players, probably linemen

In the end, I then say.. the Old World Alliance Dwarf Runner is the worst of them all. And it's not even in the options!


Humans - Not the ogre? I mean ogre is decent. But like most big guys over priced.

OWA runner worse than OWA Dwarf Lineman??? Madness!

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2023 - 17:37 Reply with quote Back to top

For what is worth, OWA Blocker seems to be better than OWA Runner to me as well (because of S access and AV 10+, Brawler is not that good but better than no Block at all, Arm Bar is a sub-par skill instead). I never played as OWA, but, while all the OWA teams I faced always featured Blockers, not all of them had the OWA Runner. Also, if a coach who plays OWA with 0 rrs uses the Blockers they can't be so bad, cost-effect-wise.
That said, I don't like OWA Blockers because they are supposed to have Block and they lack it. Tackleless Dwarf Blockers with Block could have been different enough from default Dwarf Blockers and be rostered on OWA teams.


Last edited by MattDakka on Jan 27, 2023 - 23:42; edited 3 times in total
wintergreen13



Joined: Apr 10, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2023 - 17:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
OWA runner worse than OWA Dwarf Lineman??? Madness!


Dwarf linemen are useful for soaking hits on a team that takes a fair amount of them. There is literally no place for the dwarf runner on the team.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2023 - 17:40 Reply with quote Back to top

yup. the dwarf blocker does SOMETHING, and is still cheaper than the runner. the runner is literally a lino.. with loner.. and sure hands.. and thick skull.. and 35k more expensive. why the hell wouldn't you just buy another (almost TWO) more lino's instead?
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2023 - 17:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Purplegoo wrote:
All of the Throwers and pseudo-Throwers listed are at least Leader caddies and useful in some formats because of that.

I don’t know what the answer is, now that Slann Blitzers don’t exist and I can’t suggest a Pump Wagon. Almost everything sees some play in some format or other. Is the most fringe positional of all not the Dwarf Deathroller? That’s a big chunk of change.


not sure if you meant my list or the original, but in general, even as pseudo leader-caddies, the across-the-board cost increase of throwers has made them much less attractive in that role. And for my list in particular, they're still often the worst player on the team by a large amount, even if they can fit that role.
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