harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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 Posted:
Aug 26, 2015 - 19:36 |
 
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| JackassRampant wrote: | | harvestmouse wrote: | | How would you be more vulnerable jumping on somebody, than if you had just been knocked over by a 650lb Ogre? |
650 lbs? I didn't know they let toddlers play Blood Bowl. I know some Black Orcs over 650 lbs.  |
Just checked, and I can find reference to them being 600lb. However Ogre Kingdoms has them at 800-1000lb. So yeah, I'm underweight! |
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mrbibitte3
Joined: Mar 28, 2013
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Aug 26, 2015 - 20:21 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | I'm not saying that Cpomb isn't really bad for TGs (or Saurus or Ogres) cos it obviously is... but Decay is just awful and what makes Khemri kinda pointless for league play. |
I know it's a few pages back, but just wanted to share my experience.
I agree Khemris in a very competitive league are pointless because of Decay. They are also probably pointless in a very destructive environment like the Box.
But, in a casual gameplay league, skillfully played Khemris are a very tough opponent to beat... and Decay feels much more "alright". Four intelligently played and well skilled ST5 players are a headache to confront for a casual player. Remember that "casual" players mostly don't put as much "spirit" into their game and have a tendency to favour "mindless blocking" over some more inspired strategies. Skilled Khemris are naturally very good at shutting down straightforwardly-brawly-plays. Eliminating, once in a while, a skilled Tomb Guardian, is like a fresh breath of air for most coaches. And that nega-skill is not that detrimental since a talented Khemri coach will rarely see his Tomb Guardians go down against a casual opponent.
Again, I do agree that they are pointless in a competitive league... But, eh... how can I say that... before Fumbbl, most games were played by casual players on tabletop. Can't say for sure at the moment, but chances are that most games are probably still played on tabletop. For people who play casually (at the opposite of optimally), Decay on Tomb Guardians feels quite close to "alright". And playing casually is, perhaps, still more popular than playing competitively.
Power to the brawly masses !! |
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animefreak2599
Joined: Jul 11, 2015
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Aug 26, 2015 - 22:26 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | animefreak2599 wrote: | | As a new coach who can't stand slow teams I feel like the biggest problem for me is how unsustainable elf teams seem to be. I'm always one early turnover away from completely losing initiative in a game, and from there on out I'll be shedding players in a hurry. It seems like vampires probably offer a very similar high TV experience, but with much more durability due to regeneration on their worthwhile players and Ag 3 on their linemen. |
Do you stall with your elves? |
When I can, yes. I'm usually able to avoid giving the enemy blocks better when I'm on offence than on defence, and when I'm on defence my opponent gets 4 free 2d+ blocks right off the bat, which tend to spiral into losing players since people are extremely willing to foul elf linemen(and are usually able to KO or injure at least 1 AV7 player on their first turn). |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Aug 26, 2015 - 23:07 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | JackassRampant wrote: | | harvestmouse wrote: | | How would you be more vulnerable jumping on somebody, than if you had just been knocked over by a 650lb Ogre? |
650 lbs? I didn't know they let toddlers play Blood Bowl. I know some Black Orcs over 650 lbs. |
Just checked, and I can find reference to them being 600lb. However Ogre Kingdoms has them at 800-1000lb. So yeah, I'm underweight! |
Morg was 7'4" and 414lbs (star player card) or 7'11" and 390lbs (handbook) in 2nd ed. LOL! |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 27, 2015 - 00:35 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | harvestmouse wrote: | | JackassRampant wrote: | | harvestmouse wrote: | | How would you be more vulnerable jumping on somebody, than if you had just been knocked over by a 650lb Ogre? |
650 lbs? I didn't know they let toddlers play Blood Bowl. I know some Black Orcs over 650 lbs. |
Just checked, and I can find reference to them being 600lb. However Ogre Kingdoms has them at 800-1000lb. So yeah, I'm underweight! |
Morg was 7'4" and 414lbs (star player card) or 7'11" and 390lbs (handbook) in 2nd ed. LOL! |
Just having a look through the cards now. I'm not sure they understood human weight in lbs (as we use stone in the UK).
Krug Painspear, Orc Blitzer 142lb
Odium Khan (Dark elf lino) 6ft 8 245lb Tuern Redvenon (Dark elf lino) 6ft 5 140lb
Zug 6ft 7 242lb
Harg Vainkill Orc Blocker 175lb
Ramtut III 90lb! (less than Spiky Norman the goblin)
Grograt Crunchskull 9ft 8 Troll 398lb
Hoshi Komi human 5ft 7 105lb
They're all over the place! |
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fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 27, 2015 - 00:59 |
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| mrbibitte3 wrote: | I agree Khemris in a very competitive league are pointless because of Decay. They are also probably pointless in a very destructive environment like the Box.
But, in a casual gameplay league, skillfully played Khemris are a very tough opponent to beat... and Decay feels much more "alright". |
I agree that Decay is a cool fluffy concept that's not as bad in League as in perpetual bashy environments like Box. I can think of a few ways to dumb it down while keeping its fluff:
1) Only make the second CAS roll on 4+ (MNG or worse)
2) Additional Niggle on any 4+ CAS
3) Accelerated Ageing
If Ageing was reintroduced properly it would be a natural counterpart to Decay. My current idea for Ageing is for the effect to accumulate over time (Experience tally), and a new Niggle becomes more likely as Experience rises past a certain point.
The definition of Niggle needs to change as well imo. One idea would be to apply the +1 penalty only to the d6 portion of the Casualty (d6d8) roll, making more severe injuries more likely, but not increasing the chance of leaving the match (as current Niggle does, making it a firing offense). I'd probably suggest that 6 (death) be rolled naturally, so the 5 result (stat loss) becomes 2/6, then 3/6, etc. with accumulated Niggles. |
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bigGuy
Joined: Sep 21, 2009
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Aug 27, 2015 - 01:36 |
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| fidius wrote: | | . One idea would be to apply the +1 penalty only to the d6 portion of the Casualty (d6d8) roll, making more severe injuries more likely, but not increasing the chance of leaving the match (as current Niggle does, making it a firing offense). I'd probably suggest that 6 (death) be rolled naturally, so the 5 result (stat loss) becomes 2/6, then 3/6, etc. with accumulated Niggles. |
Awesome idea! It could even be 51-54 niggle, 55-58 stat drops. Niggles would accumulate over time, and lead to inevitable death. |
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Sutherlands
Joined: Aug 01, 2009
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Aug 27, 2015 - 02:46 |
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So niggle would be the only one that doesn't affect the game? |
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Thespian
Joined: Dec 28, 2007
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Aug 27, 2015 - 03:05 |
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My 2cp...
Piling On can be nerfed if the reroll was done with the same risk as a foul. If you choose to reroll, then doubles causes you to get ejected. Sneaky Git could be used with it. It may help curb the use a little bit and make it riskier to use.
I like the Human Catchers, but to up their AV to 8. I would be a lot happier with them with that change at the same cost.
Slann Blitzers need to be cheaper. Sure they get great skill access, but one of those players bloats your TV so bad that it is rare that you see a coach use all four. Drop the cost by 10K and I think that they inch a little closer to tier 1.
I'd be for decay being dropped on the Tomb Guardians, but I don't see many of their issues being fixed by that change.
In addition, the talk of removing tackle from the Longbeards is ridiculous. they have a stat line of 4329. Why would anyone play them? Because they have block? Even the Norse get block on their linemen for 20K cheaper, and +2MA, +1AG and 2 less AV. The Dwarf schtick is to have crappy stats, but excellent skills. Thats the tradeoff. |
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VoyagerI
Joined: Dec 17, 2014
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Aug 27, 2015 - 03:27 |
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Unless you're playing against nothing but cPOMB the difference between AV9 and AV7 is kind of a huge deal. Their linemen also get Strength access on normals, meaning they can freely spam Guard and Mighty Blow to complete the funbox, while the only people with natural guard access on Norse are frenzy blitzers who can't hold a position and end half their turns on the ground.
EDIT: I'm not saying that Dwarves are overpowered or anything. The data doesn't support it and their linemen would be challenged to score on an empty pitch, but saying they're analogous to the Norse is a bad argument. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 27, 2015 - 07:12 |
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Squiglet
Joined: Aug 13, 2015
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Aug 27, 2015 - 13:45 |
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| Thespian wrote: |
Piling On can be nerfed if the reroll was done with the same risk as a foul. If you choose to reroll, then doubles causes you to get ejected. Sneaky Git could be used with it. It may help curb the use a little bit and make it riskier to use. |
This idea I like. Perhaps not the sneeky git bit though.
Now as for issues with rosters, I would actually like to see a blocker positional in the human team - perhaps 0-2 5329 block, tackle. They are meant to be the all rounders so why not round them out a bit. |
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Badoek
Joined: May 17, 2009
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Aug 27, 2015 - 14:25 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: |
Just having a look through the cards now. I'm not sure they understood human weight in lbs (as we use stone in the UK).
Krug Painspear, Orc Blitzer 142lb
Odium Khan (Dark elf lino) 6ft 8 245lb Tuern Redvenon (Dark elf lino) 6ft 5 140lb
Zug 6ft 7 242lb
Harg Vainkill Orc Blocker 175lb
Ramtut III 90lb! (less than Spiky Norman the goblin)
Grograt Crunchskull 9ft 8 Troll 398lb
Hoshi Komi human 5ft 7 105lb
They're all over the place! |
Hilarious, Ramtut is awesome! |
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Jamerson
Joined: Jul 22, 2009
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Aug 27, 2015 - 14:32 |
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Admittedly, Ramtut MIGHT not weigh too much as he IS a decomposing corpse after all - but 90lbs does seem a tad too slender. I'm sure my cat weighs that much (judging by how much he eats). |
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I am a fixer. And my services are valued.
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 27, 2015 - 14:50 |
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Well he was AV11, had an ST of around 8, Toughness 4 (-4 off of the injury roll) and Mighty blow +2. All at weighing in at a whopping 90lb!
There were halflings that weighed nearly double of him and Dwarfs that weighed well over 3 times.
On a side note, not sure I should say but......looks like Valen Swift enjoyed a few too many pies towards the end of his career! However, I shan't say anymore on the issue! |
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