Foad
Joined: Sep 02, 2007
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 Posted:
May 21, 2014 - 03:55 |
 
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Faulcon clicked 100 CRP games against Fortis. Eganra (98.), Poley (96) and I (95*) should click next season as well...
Grats to Barre's bull Englert, who became the highest SPP star in the SWL reaching 299* passing Eganra's recently fallen runner. He also Emily's TD record.
Couldn't help but think that 1 more TD may have seen consider redrafting...
Edit: Erickan is on 94. |
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Last edited by Foad on %b %21, %2014 - %14:%May; edited 2 times in total |
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Semitence
Joined: May 18, 2013
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May 21, 2014 - 11:48 |
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DaemonicLazoth
Joined: Jul 18, 2004
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May 21, 2014 - 12:02 |
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| DrDiscoStu wrote: | | well the reggies are certainly losing their "Bash" flavour with dwarf, orc, c-dwarfx2 being promoted and woodies, chaos-pact, human, slann coming down, with woodies, zons, skaven, humans being drafted. DL you might be picking the wrong time to redraft with the huge amount of tackle going up! |
Tackle was never the issue, the issue was too many losses and injuries with too little cash coming in to keep the team together.
It doesn't help that every game this season I might as well not have had dodge because it never really seemed to matter when getting hit. |
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Dlock
Joined: Mar 08, 2014
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May 21, 2014 - 13:37 |
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I am bit frustrated with the whole tackle skill, or many of the other skills that really make it hard to build "defensive" players.
Every defensive skill can be countered with offensive skill, but there is no downsides to offensive skills like Claw and Mighty blow (or very minor downsides).
Anyhow, it is what it is, no point complaining ( except that its fun).
- Dlock |
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DrDiscoStu
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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May 21, 2014 - 13:43 |
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Dlock
Joined: Mar 08, 2014
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May 21, 2014 - 23:21 |
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True.
But what I am mean is that for every defensive skill one can pick, there is offensive skill that nullifies it; Dodge - tackle, fend - Juggernaut, Side-Step - Juggernaut, and so on...
However there is no counters to many damage dealing skills, or even if there is, there is further skill to counter this counter skill.
Stop Piling-On by taking fend, nice, but then there will be juggernaut with PO.
Give me skill that cant be countered and works against damage skill.
This latest ruleset, while as a whole is the best I have seen, does support strength teams.
- Dlock |
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Foad
Joined: Sep 02, 2007
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May 22, 2014 - 02:05 |
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Is that all 3 Dark Elf teams in Premier next season? Last time that happened we came 6th, 7th & 8th... |
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Foad
Joined: Sep 02, 2007
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May 22, 2014 - 02:06 |
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Is that all 3 Dark Elf teams in Premier next season? Last time that happened we came 6th, 7th & 8th... |
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Erickan
Joined: Sep 03, 2008
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May 22, 2014 - 08:42 |
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Congrats B2K on the Prem title again. Unlucky Semitence to be pipped on the head 2 head been there myself, but it was certainly an exciting season and fascinating last match as many of us though Rabid might have got the equaliser but for some really unlucky rolls.
Looking forward to the new season with many of veteran prem teams back and it should be a really close season again. Woo hoo 94 games hadn't noticed thanks Chavo now have a more achievable target to hit for next season than trying to avoid relegation. Cheers |
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Daudy
Joined: Aug 28, 2008
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May 22, 2014 - 10:34 |
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Well done B2k, and great effort from everyone else also (particularly Semi on a great first up season).
Next season should be interesting. I usually don't mind elves (blodgespam, kamikaze, and all) but the 3 darkie teams are well coached and even better rolled. I may have one super freak, but you guys have lots of freaks!
Also, B2k has the opportunity to be the first coach/team to win Prem 3 seasons in a row. Only a handful of teams have ever won 3 or more (inc. B2K & Barre), but the longest streak of titles won back to back is only two (Barre, B2K, myself, and maybe faulcon, I'm not sure, being the active teams who have done so).
| Dlock wrote: | Side-Step - Juggernaut, and so on...
However there is no counters to many damage dealing skills, or even if there is, there is further skill to counter this counter skill.
- Dlock |
It's grab you're looking for there, but I get what you mean. I've been giving it some thought.
I think we're looking at it in a slightly too isolated fashion, where we're not considering a few other things.
Whilst you're right in pointing out defensive skills now technically have countering skills with no direct options vice versa, those newer skills such as grab and juggernaut are typically skills that are very far down the developmental order because they're so specific. Most defensive skills tend to have much more frequently used or broader abilities and usually appear earlier on builds (sometimes by a long way) than any of their counters.Subsequently, on equally developed teams, you're more likely to have a significant amount more of these defensive skills than anyone has of their direct counter. Tackle may be a bit more of a priority in the hierarchy of skill selection, but it still suffers from that problem. People aren't going to spam tackle because it's very much a one dimensional thing, whereas people are going to spam dodge because it's much more useful in a greater context. Same with fend vs juggernaut. You've got a skill that's anti-po and positioning available all turn long across multiple players compared to being limited to use in a once per turn action. Sidestep vs grab might be about a tie in terms of overall contribution, but we're still much more likely to see sidestep long before any grab.
This somewhat brings me to the next thing - the outright damage skills like mb and claw. Whilst mb in particular is frequently taken as 2nd skill in most non-block starting teams (around the same time blodge is finished on similarly non-skilled opponents), I think you're underestimating not being knocked over in the first place as a result of dodge/blodge. I'm fairly sure the odds favour a blodge player against a block/mb guy than say a guy with no dodge protection vs a guy with no mb. It's likely to hurt more IF you're knocked over, but once factoring the lesser chance of that happening, the overall chance of an injury is less. Not only that, you don't lose -3ma next turn + the benefits of not being prone, and those are benefits that can't really be measured in odds. So yeah, I guess I'm saying the counter of sorts to claw/mb is that tackle is much later in the hierarchy of development than blodge (and not being knocked over in the first place) and will be in few numbers. I mean, even look at someone as monstrous as Erickan's team which has heaps of development put into it. Even against lower tvs (aka everyone) his tackle kill stacks hardly match the amount of blodge that agiles can field for much less. And that's with Orcs who have 4/11 of the team starting with block already!
I'm by no means saying any of this is easy going or that a freak team full of superstar+ killstacks won't demolish you, but I don't think it's quite as simple as "these skills have counters but these ones don't". They kinda do, but in a very indirect fashion. That's all I'm pointing out.
On a sidenote:
Arguably +AV is also a counter of sorts to mb, but that's a stupid idea so I'm not going to go there.
Secondly, cdorfs are the serious exception to what I've said above. Can be clawpomb tacklers in numbers a whole 2 skills/ 40ktv/ 44spp per player earlier than everybody else (albeit, they require 1 double). Bulls also can make decent use of juggernaut if you're so inclined (though still as a later skill), and other offensive counters like grab will generally come a lot earlier. Normal dorfs also somewhat fall under the same exception (no claw, but still quick progression & no jugger bulls, but slayers instead). I don't think they're as bad though, as they have a couple of other limitations.
Perma ban cdorfs imo!  |
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Dlock
Joined: Mar 08, 2014
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May 22, 2014 - 23:51 |
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Excellent post Daudy.
All your points are very valid, and obviously backed with much more experience that I have.
This will make me re-value dodge skill, which I havent been taking for the fear of facing tackers - and due the dwarf teams on my division.
Thank you.
- Dlock |
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Megrim
Joined: Apr 24, 2011
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May 23, 2014 - 01:15 |
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| Daudy wrote: | | Dlock wrote: | Side-Step - Juggernaut, and so on...
However there is no counters to many damage dealing skills, or even if there is, there is further skill to counter this counter skill.
- Dlock |
This somewhat brings me to the next thing - the outright damage skills like mb and claw. Whilst mb in particular is frequently taken as 2nd skill in most non-block starting teams (around the same time blodge is finished on similarly non-skilled opponents), I think you're underestimating not being knocked over in the first place as a result of dodge/blodge. I'm fairly sure the odds favour a blodge player against a block/mb guy than say a guy with no dodge protection vs a guy with no mb. It's likely to hurt more IF you're knocked over, but once factoring the lesser chance of that happening, the overall chance of an injury is less. Not only that, you don't lose -3ma next turn + the benefits of not being prone, and those are benefits that can't really be measured in odds. So yeah, I guess I'm saying the counter of sorts to claw/mb is that tackle is much later in the hierarchy of development than blodge (and not being knocked over in the first place) and will be in few numbers. I mean, even look at someone as monstrous as Erickan's team which has heaps of development put into it. Even against lower tvs (aka everyone) his tackle kill stacks hardly match the amount of blodge that agiles can field for much less. And that's with Orcs who have 4/11 of the team starting with block already! |
I'm going to have to disagree on some of this, simply because I think you are oversimplifying the issue.
You are right in that Blodge is incredibly powerful, and on the whole I'd say the best skill combo in the game.
However, what gets missed in the mb v blodge case is the applicability of the skill(s). Blodge on a player is great, but it works to only protect that one player IF they get targeted. MB/Claw/etc... on the other hand, all work against every player that doesn't have Blodge.
So in the example given about teams which develop instances of those skills at around roughly the same time, sure, the few players with Blodge will be well off. But the few players with mb-> will be able to be effective against everything else.
Now in the long run, Blodge spam is very very good (which is why Elves tend to be able to win at every TV level, and especially at the highest), but this does nothing to address the development issues faced by teams without good stat-lines and broad scale G/A access. |
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swladmin
Joined: Sep 22, 2010
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May 23, 2014 - 13:51 |
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Final Axe for Season LIV
All done and dusted. Congrats to Balle for another prem title, with a hard chase by Semitence and Daudy.
JK and Irgy from DB conf with Chavo and Faulcon from Frosters gaining promotion it will be an exciting run next season.
Grod has done a great job going 7-0-0 in reggies, be intereting to see if he can continue the good form to win a prem spot next season. Good job by all the other regional coaches getting majority of games played, its good to see and bodes well for the strength of the league.
Changes from my side of things are a tightening up of extensions and forfeits next season to the standard of the rules. So i'll repeat again what I sent out as a PM earlier in the season.
For those who don't know extensions should only be granted in extreme circumstances. The correct method for requesting an extension includes inviting me (swladmin) to the current pm thread between you and your opponent and requesting an extension.
This HAS to include an arranged time agreed to by both coaches to when the game will be played (or at least started) before 10pm Wednesday final axe.
Check here for the rules.(Advanced Rules tab)
It takes 5mins to check pm's on site and get your games organized, please show some courtesy to the other coaches in the league and do things the right way.
Another thing I may try next season is asking everyone to add swladmin from the start of communications and I will keep track of scheduled games on swladmins/about page. I'll update daily if possible. Not every game will get advertised there but a lot will be. Make use of it if you like.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and I hope it helps everyone next season. |
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Last edited by swladmin on %b %27, %2014 - %10:%May; edited 1 time in total |
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DrPoods
Joined: Nov 14, 2013
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May 23, 2014 - 13:59 |
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Not a bad idea! Will get people speccing games easily too. |
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Rabid_Bogscum
Joined: Aug 04, 2005
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May 24, 2014 - 02:32 |
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| Erickan wrote: | Congrats B2K on the Prem title again. Unlucky Semitence to be pipped on the head 2 head been there myself, but it was certainly an exciting season and fascinating last match as many of us though Rabid might have got the equaliser but for some really unlucky rolls.
Looking forward to the new season with many of veteran prem teams back and it should be a really close season again. Woo hoo 94 games hadn't noticed thanks Chavo now have a more achievable target to hit for next season than trying to avoid relegation. Cheers |
Yeah was a bastard of a frustrating game. The thing that did Semi in was that I needed to win to avoid relegation. There were rolls I didnt need to make but did in order to try and push for the win. I had the position to close out a draw comfortably really. |
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