| Poll |
| What should I do? |
| Quit whining and take your lumps |
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28% |
[ 6 ] |
| Quit whining and Rebuild your team |
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23% |
[ 5 ] |
| Quit whining and Play a different team |
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28% |
[ 6 ] |
| Quit whining, quit the league and eat more PIE |
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19% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 21 |
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Sutherlands
Joined: Aug 01, 2009
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 Posted:
Nov 03, 2016 - 15:15 |
 
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Man, all this talk about the Bludgeoners and how you have to build clawpomb to fight the other clawpomb teams... we have 1 killer and recently got a guy with claw/mb. Other than that, we constantly build our team with tentacles and diving tackle because we keep losing to fast teams and frogs. We're not a killer team, and that pact team is much more scary to our players than we are to them. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Nov 03, 2016 - 15:34 |
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It's not that Cincy is cpomb spam, it's that Cincy is high TV nurgle who does have cpomb (to varying degrees at various times). My opinion is that most M teams are better when they are running 'cpomb-lite', and often one is all they really need.
But the problem here isn't what Cincy is generally, it's that Miami has to face NA 2x and Cincy 1x and likely one of us in the playoffs too. So if your goal is to get to the superbowl, you have to build a team that can deal with high TV M teams (we used to also have some Chaos but they have since departed).
This is actually pretty easy for Nurgle and CD, those races naturally have or build players who are effective against elfs (hybrids I don't care about, if you don't have AG4 you are limited in your ability to take wins by elfing some crazy plays).
Pact? Well pact can't pack tackle and guard the way that CD can, and doesn't have disturbing presence and access to st4+ tentacles (well other than BGs, but BGs are inherently unreliable). Pact, even at huge TVs struggles to have multiple rounded players who are good in any matchup. They can build specifically to dominate matchups, like I think Bullroarer has done to try to dominate the other M teams (and the odd orc/dwarf who shows up), but then they are often lacking when they face elfs. And they are always lacking when their BGs roll too many 1s, and when the odd 1 comes on animosity.
I dread playing Miami 2x a year, because that team is built more than any other to beat the crap out of CD. Even when I out guard them I still don't have any way to deal with 3x BGs who can lock up my blockers, even if they aren't removing them. But when we see the records of the teams at the end of the year, even if Miami beats me 2x, NA still is winning the division (usually). Why? Well I'm telling you it's not because I'm a better coach than Bullroarer (I'm not). It's because I thrive in most other match ups where Miami does not.
So to go back to the original question again. Is that because Pact cannot compete in the NBFL (at a playoff level) or is it because the way he built his Pact cannot get it done? I don't know the answer to that honestly. I can see what I think are issues, but I don't play Pact, so my input on how to build them or play them is limited (compared to Sutherlands anyway). Still the comparison of NWFL to NBFL is not a useful one I think. The comparison to B might be better, but high TV B is still not the same as NBFL seasons.
The real question Bullroarer needs to ask himself is how much he enjoys playing the Krakens. Does he look forward to each new week? Or is it feeling like a chore (I've been there...)? Do the games all start to feel the same? Won or lost just due to matchup or just due to the early turns cas dice (I've been there too)?
Answer questions like that and it goes a long way to helping you decide what you really want to do. And that runs the gamut of the questions on the poll, from stick it out, to take a break entirely. I hope he doesn't go for the later though, I've enjoyed facing him even as I don't enjoy facing the Krakens (hope that makes sense). |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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| Posted:
Nov 03, 2016 - 15:44 |
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Sutherlands, you've got 4 DPs mate.
I know that this is basically the natural course for a rotter, but it does (a) give you quite the potential to snowball cas when the ref isn't sending them all off (yeah, i've seen your last few games); and (b) reflect quite nicely a way in which nurgle (and chaos dwarves) can quite easily boost their pitch control and killing capacity via fodder - making multiple marauder DPs would feel like a waste for cpact but is absolutely natural use of resources for the others. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Nov 03, 2016 - 16:39 |
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Go Helfs. Stimme and I need more arrogant banjos to cavort with. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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| Posted:
Nov 03, 2016 - 17:01 |
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| ArrestedDevelopment wrote: | | The thing is, of the hybrid races, the one I would've picked personally is necro [...] |
I'd never see that one coming...
As AD underlined, it may be a meta problem coupled with a build problem. Keeping the Pact 3BG build around may imply rebuilding one of the BG and, more importantly, the core group. Hybrid teams, Pact included, shouldn't have that much problems with Elf crap. An option I see from the top of my hat is a Frenzy blitzer, which is good both against Bash and Elves. You'd also need a safety.
If you're disgusted with your team, starting anew may be the way to go. But then the meta changes, which means other players may do the same as you. It's hard to beat that arms race. |
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There is always Sneaky Git. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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| Posted:
Nov 03, 2016 - 17:07 |
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Maybe it's as simple as cutting that Mino and running 2 bigs only. And getting some more Guard. You need 5 or 6, 'cuz they're either AV8 or big. |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Nov 03, 2016 - 17:14 |
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| JackassRampant wrote: | | Maybe it's as simple as cutting that Mino and running 2 bigs only. And getting some more Guard. You need 5 or 6, 'cuz they're either AV8 or big. |
I think this is the right way to go and since he's permed, Bullroarer can cut him and start brand new or draft a baller mino in the draft if he wants to go down that path again. I don't think i'd take PO on the big guys, especially the Mino. Even if it's used once per game on turn 8 kick off returns, I think you'd get more mileage out of SF.
Cutting the Mino right now will take him down to a TV where maybe he gives up less inducements, especially a wizard. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Nov 03, 2016 - 23:31 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: | | JackassRampant wrote: | | Maybe it's as simple as cutting that Mino and running 2 bigs only. And getting some more Guard. You need 5 or 6, 'cuz they're either AV8 or big. |
I think this is the right way to go and since he's permed, Bullroarer can cut him and start brand new or draft a baller mino in the draft if he wants to go down that path again. I don't think i'd take PO on the big guys, especially the Mino. Even if it's used once per game on turn 8 kick off returns, I think you'd get more mileage out of SF.
Cutting the Mino right now will take him down to a TV where maybe he gives up less inducements, especially a wizard. |
No doubt the Mino is trash, but even a 4 skill draft pick Mino is going to be trash, Bullroarer seems to like the 3BG line up though. Of course he may ditch it after reading this thread, I couldn't see running a rookie Mino in any case.
The TV is lower than it was, losing the double stat freak helped there, losing the Mino will help even more, but I don't think the problem is just as easy as 'oh noes! a wizard!', because those AG4 teams are still probably taking a wizard against him, they just are not also taking a star and assorted other crap.
The problem generally with Pact is that the mauraders need a lot of skills to become 'good' at something. And you can't really build any of them into multiple use players because they need so many skills to get there. This splits the development into killers (which he has plenty), ballers (which he sort of has) and one or two skill line fodder. It's hard to field a 'proper' team to deal with the opponent when you don't have players who can fill multiple roles, either you have 3BGs and 3 killers, but you can't leverage that into much of anything, or you leave a lot of TV on the bench to field lesser players who seem better suited to the opponent. But you're still sitting 100s of TV on the bench...
Lean Pact is probably easier to manage (dunno if it's better), but as others have said, mauraders (like Beastmen) are really good, and so it feels like a waste to just stick DP on them and then have them do nothing else. Rotters and Hobbers? Duh, you stick DP on them and intentionally keep them from getting any more spp. |
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ex-convict
Joined: Jun 28, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 03, 2016 - 23:58 |
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I ran Pact in the NBFL for about three seasons, making it to the playoffs in the final due to having three +ST 'rauders.
From my experiences:
-Forget the minotaur. He's a huge waste of TV for an unreliable player. He's at his best when you blitz with him, but you have better players to do that with.
-Don't forget about guard; having 2-3 block/guard rauders will help out a lot. Putting them next to a big guy is going to be a pain for your opponents.
-Foul. I can't break armor worth a darn with my boots, but you have access to 50k fodder. Get your boots bloody!
-Have at least one marauder specialized in getting the ball. Mutations are pretty sexy, so a rauder with extra arms, sure hands, block, and later two heads will be very helpful. Teams will obviously target your DE, so you need to having a 'running mate' in your backfield.
-Grow a player like Tony "No Homo" Romo and add an extra dimension to your offense! He can bail you out late in games before your defense gives up the lead to lose the game, thus hurting his reputation through little fault of his own, and then he gets replaced by a rookie QB and is never heard from again.
Believe me, trying to fight the meta and switch to an elven race won't make things any easier. The AFC is a bloody gauntlet of gladiator matches; eventually you have to get lucky more than anything to make it through the playoffs. |
_________________
Part of the NCBB and the NBFL.
Don't drop the soap. |
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ex-convict
Joined: Jun 28, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 04, 2016 - 00:14 |
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| licker wrote: | | Believe me, I've bemoaned that many times, at the top of the AFC you only have occasional showings from Oakland and San Dogo to break the monotony. |
I think this is a complement...regardless, the two aforementioned teams will meet this week for the twenty seventh time, which is probably an NBFL record.
San Dogo leads the series 12-6-8 (W/T/L), though Oakland has done better in recent seasons after struggling initially.
Time TBD |
_________________
Part of the NCBB and the NBFL.
Don't drop the soap. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Nov 04, 2016 - 00:35 |
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| ex-convict wrote: | | licker wrote: | | Believe me, I've bemoaned that many times, at the top of the AFC you only have occasional showings from Oakland and San Dogo to break the monotony. |
I think this is a complement...regardless, the two aforementioned teams will meet this week for the twenty seventh time, which is probably an NBFL record.
San Dogo leads the series 12-6-8 (W/T/L), though Oakland has done better in recent seasons after struggling initially.
Time TBD |
Wasn't intended as an insult or a compliment, just a statement of fact 
When Robo was running Denver you guys had it harder for sure, but the AFCE and AFCN are basically always sending multiple M teams. The AFCS has seen more flux than the other divisions so you don't know what you get. AFCW at least sends one (or sometimes both) Oakland and San Dogo, and you guys are the longest tenured teams in the AFC I believe. |
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Bullroarer4
Joined: Oct 22, 2012
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| Posted:
Nov 05, 2016 - 00:21 |
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I appreciate the feedback and advice. Cutting the Minotaur and upping my guard count will be the first of my rebuilding efforts |
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Tenacious doesn't begin to describe me. Never give up, never surrender |
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Sutherlands
Joined: Aug 01, 2009
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| Posted:
Nov 09, 2016 - 23:33 |
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Don't cut the Mino! The big guys are the best part about pact! |
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