morraywolfymax
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
 Posted:
Dec 03, 2008 - 12:47 |
 
|
Introduce a mng system for people who get sent of for fouling!
That'd mess him up! |
_________________
Anyone named Vampy is ace! |
|
speedypman
Joined: Feb 28, 2008
|
| Posted:
Dec 03, 2008 - 12:55 |
|
kind of funny a new system is here where u cant dodge games and all people are thinking of is how the could dodge games in it in the future.
well i suggest u cherry pick in ranked again,... |
|
|
shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
|
| Posted:
Dec 03, 2008 - 12:57 |
|
| JanMattys wrote: | But if you just charge forward and it never strikes me as possible that you're actually caring about the little pigskin round object... then I guess it's YOUR type that the division was not designed for, not my type.
Competitive spirit is a prerequisite for being a blackboxer, as much as having guts is. |
i'm sorry jan....i have a winning record in Blackbox, and i've done it without building a DP khemri team, or some other pointless atrocity....in fact...i'm one of the elf coaches in Blackbox...
so how exactly am i a bad guy in this league again?....
while yes, competitive spirit is a prerequisite for being a Blackbox coach, it is *NOT* a prerequisite for participating in Blackbox....do you see the difference i'm drawing here?...
--j |
_________________
| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
  |
|
ClayInfinity
Joined: Aug 15, 2003
|
| Posted:
Dec 03, 2008 - 13:08 |
|
Sorry, I dont get it... the team in question has won 15 games and has a FF of 10. Seems like he's winning? |
|
|
clarkin
Joined: Oct 15, 2007
|
| Posted:
Dec 03, 2008 - 13:10 |
|
Strangely enough Loved by Elephants have a slightly decent (for khemri, and particularly for mass DP khemri) record of 15/12/21, so their kill-first tactics do work occasionally. 5 of their wins were concessions by their opponent, but I presume they would have won or at least drawn those anyway.
My opinion: it's black box so take what you are given, sometimes you will come up against this kind of team, it doesn't mean autoretirement of your team, far from it!
Edit: nice work Malmir on killing his Str 5 skeleton though! |
Last edited by clarkin on %b %03, %2008 - %13:%Dec; edited 1 time in total |
|
Vol
Joined: Sep 19, 2008
|
| Posted:
Dec 03, 2008 - 13:11 |
|
This thread has gotten out of hand. And to anyone who thinks that any strategy is legit, I'm sorry, you are just being pissy for the sake of it. These are strategies that no one would enter into any league or tournament because they don't win. Fouling is a fine strategy that can win. Wasting every lineman's skill on DP is not a winning strategy. Not having any ball handlers is strategy. Having more of your own players banned by the ref than opposing players injured is not a winning strategy. I don't care to play if you don't care to play for real.
As to a karma system, I think it could completely work. It would be hard to abuse since there are so many people here.
There are rational people like me that would consider this only the second (maybe third) match of the thirty three that I've played that deserved negative karma. And I've played many more to which I know I would give positive karma.
There are coaches who would give negative karma to any coach that fouled at all. There would also be coaches who would give positive karma not caring that they were fouled. There are coaches that would give negative karma just because they lose. Others that would give positive karma not caring that they lost. I imagine there would be a fine imbalance there that would reflect the will of the majority. And a slim majority would only have a slim effect overall.
There would need to be some restrictions on the way the karma system would work:
I wouldn't want any coach to see the karma granted by another coach. I don't want retribution karma for example.
I would only want the coaches involved in the match to give karma. Yes, several coaches can look at the match record and see how lame his team was, but no need to open up the karma system until it happens to them.
I would want there to be a single point of karma granted in either the negative or positive (though choosing not to grant karma at all is fine). But I would want each point of karma granted to be weighted. Coaches who give notably more positive than negative should have their negative karma weigh more than their positive, and vice versa. Coaches with a high karma rating themselves should have the karma they grant weight more than coaches with a negative karma rating.
Karma should be slow to move. Young coaches shouldn't get thrown onto a track they don't deserve. They need to build up a track record. And we shouldn't expect a tiger to change stripes so easily.
Karma should have real consequences. There needs to be a way for coaches to elect to ignore other coaches whose karma falls too low.
I guess it would be possible, and fair, for one to play nice in Rank and League and then be a complete heel in Blackbox. I don't really see the need in having more than one karma rating, but I could understand it.
Jan, I did not mean to whine. I just would like a solution to a problem that is wasting more than just my time.
p.s. You guys would be proud of winning 1 game in 3? You'd be proud of forcing a third of your wins to be concessions?[/i] |
|
|
JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
|
| Posted:
Dec 03, 2008 - 13:15 |
|
| shadow46x2 wrote: | | JanMattys wrote: | But if you just charge forward and it never strikes me as possible that you're actually caring about the little pigskin round object... then I guess it's YOUR type that the division was not designed for, not my type.
Competitive spirit is a prerequisite for being a blackboxer, as much as having guts is. |
i'm sorry jan....i have a winning record in Blackbox, and i've done it without building a DP khemri team, or some other pointless atrocity....in fact...i'm one of the elf coaches in Blackbox...
so how exactly am i a bad guy in this league again?.... |
I wasn't talking about *you*. It was a general *you*, sorry in italian we use it.
| shadow46x2 wrote: | while yes, competitive spirit is a prerequisite for being a Blackbox coach, it is *NOT* a prerequisite for participating in Blackbox....do you see the difference i'm drawing here?...
--j |
Yes i see it. And I also see that's exactly what Vol is questioning. He is asking the community "shouldn't competitive spirit be a prerequisite?"?
I don't know if I agree, and I don't know *how* such a prerequisite should be enforced... even if the 3-coache-idea by sillysod has some merits and could be looked deeper into. |
_________________
 |
|
Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
|
| Posted:
Dec 03, 2008 - 13:16 |
|
| shadow46x2 wrote: | | JanMattys wrote: | But if you just charge forward and it never strikes me as possible that you're actually caring about the little pigskin round object... then I guess it's YOUR type that the division was not designed for, not my type.
Competitive spirit is a prerequisite for being a blackboxer, as much as having guts is. |
i'm sorry jan....i have a winning record in Blackbox, and i've done it without building a DP khemri team, or some other pointless atrocity....in fact...i'm one of the elf coaches in Blackbox...
so how exactly am i a bad guy in this league again?....
while yes, competitive spirit is a prerequisite for being a Blackbox coach, it is *NOT* a prerequisite for participating in Blackbox....do you see the difference i'm drawing here?...
--j |
Come on shadow, surely you are aware of the difference between a "personal you" and a "general you".
Jan's comment was clearly a general you, aimed at people, who don't play to win. The team in question has a winning record of 48 (15/12/21), which isn't too bad for a "I play just for the destruction" kind of team, I guess.
I don't mind facing cheesy all DP teams in the blackbox (then again, I haven't faced any yet). You just need to adapt your own style to it, no more of this straight jacket ranked "honour" code. If people play their elves with DPs and stall a bit, instead of shooting for a 5-0 record, they'd do a lot better, imho. |
|
|
Ullakkomorko
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
|
| Posted:
Dec 03, 2008 - 13:22 |
|
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=player&op=view&player_id=6145172
Heh. This player highlights the frustration that I assume is felt by every Khemri coach at some point.
Actually now I think that behind this team are three rainy matches in a row and fifteen minutes of keyboard whacking and "WHY CAN'T I PICK UP THE BALL THANK YOU NUFFLE I HATE THIS GAME I WISH I WAS DEAD NO I WISH EVERYONE ELSE WAS DEAD!" |
Last edited by Ullakkomorko on %b %03, %2008 - %13:%Dec; edited 1 time in total |
|
odi
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Dec 03, 2008 - 13:24 |
|
I suppose this is basically how it went...
1) People who accepted every offer in R anyway moved to B.
2) People in R who just bash not caring about winning games move to B, because they dont get a game in R anymore, since those ppl allready left. So now half the people in R are gone.
3) The ones left are the ones who want to pick their games so they can either maximize their win% or not get their pixels killed. But since there are less people playing in R, they are having problems getting games, and now they want to come to B, but leave them selves the option to dodge games.
If we allow this, soon we'll be in the same situation as we were in R division to start with... Let's face it, if you care for your pixels and want to build the perfect team, you're better off sticking to R and taking more time to get an actual game.
So far most of the games I've played in B have been a lot of fun, both coaches enjoying the games and even laughing at each other's T16 fouls if the game has evolved into a full blown foul fest. Almost all of the games have still been about winning, or die trying.
So far I've actually only faced 1 really bad whiner in B (I dont count mentioning the dice a few times and still being able to enjoy the game whining), and usually at that point I try to give them a reason to whine about. A sure thing is to start crying and whining about the dice or CAS when playing with me, since I find the whining boring, and I'll be sure to start gang fouling you. You know, to try and beat the habit of whining out of you 
And ofcourse there are a few things that annoy my opponents, usually it's the incredible luck I have with the dice, using the "admin_client", and enjoy it while it lasts. Another thing is, if I am playing vs a low TR chaos team, which seems to be built into teamkilling, I give it every effort, to beat that team into retirement before they "grow up". Since they would be doing the same thing to me later on.
But usually I play to win, while killing the opposition players... Even though looking at my skavens CAS diff, the second part doesnt seem to be working that well  |
|
|
WG|Dark_Angel
Joined: Dec 18, 2004
|
| Posted:
Dec 03, 2008 - 13:27 |
|
By the way, I know for fact that he was laughing himself silly when his ST 5 skeleton was killed. His Khemri have almost 50% win ratio and his orcs have 65% win ratio - so he does seem to care about winning, no?
| Quote: | | And to anyone who thinks that any strategy is legit, I'm sorry, you are just being pissy for the sake of it. These are strategies that no one would enter into any league or tournament |
That's plain false! He won several Smacks, and most of them using his oh-so-never-wins Multi-DP Khemri. In fact, the game I posted was a Smack Final.
| Quote: | | And to anyone who thinks that any strategy is legit |
I believe that with all my heart and soul. |
|
|
hardin0
Joined: May 24, 2006
|
| Posted:
Dec 03, 2008 - 13:28 |
|
| PurpleChest wrote: | this is one of the reasons im not playing [B].
'Said coach' is clearly purile and more than a little pathetic, if they arnt 14 yrs old, then certainly their mental age is arrested there. And any time spent in game with them would be a waste of my limited gaming time and resources.
In R i can just mock them from afar, in [B] i can't.
This is a big upside of the box for me. it gives coaches like that a place where people cant avoid them, and where by not having a [B] team, i can. |
exactly what i wanted to post 
Just assume what [B] is, let these kind of players fight each other, and play Ranked. |
|
|
KennethLumina
Joined: Oct 23, 2008
|
| Posted:
Dec 03, 2008 - 13:29 |
|
Dang, I had hoped for better here. Let's try to get constructive, yeah?
Lots of people play in a style that others don't like. Okay we got it. Those people then say 'stop whining' or 'don't play', or 'it's in the rules' or whatever. Okay great. None of that really helps and doesn't need multiple pages of people posting that.
There was, and still might be a good idea here. Allow Blackbox coaches a small number of blacklists in the box so they do not have to sit through thoroughly unenjoyable games. The main goal of playing fumbbl is to have fun, so let's keep that in mind.
There are hundreds of coaches in the black box. Only a handful of them are the true problem coaches that this thread was meant to address. Letting coaches black list a very limited number of coaches so they do not have to play them in the box will help keep the game enjoyable for more coaches. Overall, blocking 3 coaches from the whole of the box will not let someone avoid matches against a particular playing style, but it will help the coach avoid matches that they would find very unenjoyable. This seems very reasonable. Say everyone gets three select spots to use to protect your play experience while not hindering the basic idea of the box, playing in random matches, and which by no means allows the coach to cherrypick. And what about the coaches that get blacklisted? They still get games just like normal with out ever having to know they've been blacklisted because unless the entire box blacklists them there will be people willing to play against them. This seems very reasonable and I have not seen a sound argument against it. And I say a sound argument because I have only seen petty bickering. |
|
|
PhrollikK
Joined: Nov 04, 2006
|
| Posted:
Dec 03, 2008 - 13:31 |
|
| KennethLumina wrote: | | There was, and still might be a good idea here. Allow Blackbox coaches a small number of blacklists in the box so they do not have to sit through thoroughly unenjoyable games. The main goal of playing fumbbl is to have fun, so let's keep that in mind. |
Keep also in mind that different people have different views on what is fun. If you enter Black Box, be prepared with an extra pair of undies and a handkerchief |
_________________
Visit my MiniCity
Mega Punk!
Malicious Rex, Daemon Adoptable |
|
odi
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Dec 03, 2008 - 13:33 |
|
No, that pic means that on next roll of doubles that player gets piling on! |
|
|
|
|
| |
Designer's Comm...
Search
