Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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 Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 15:42 |
 
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maybe he means that, but then that just wouldnt work, people will play what they want and the draws will still be made much as they are now. |
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Relezite
Joined: May 21, 2007
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| Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 15:48 |
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| Tarabaralla wrote: | | In a TT league, the clawmbpo spammer would be simply forced to change team after a while, because no one would like to play those matches. |
This sums up my feeling on the matter. The box could be amazing, but really the culture of it tends to grind out fragile teams. Players who are dissatisfied with the box culture leave and the general 'voice' turns to favor the status quo. More and more coaches fall into it and use the random pairing to field teams that otherwise would not see play in leagues and ranked. In a well balanced, competitive, random draw these teams would not be as common because they aren't really they good at winning, just good at setting the general development curve of the division lower. You can see the effort some organizations (ARR, Human League) are making to depolarize the box, but the reality is that as long as cpomb blood gush fantasy teams are being built, the box can never reach its full potential because these games have the highest potential of being the dullest most frustrating experiences Blood Bowl has to offer. And how many people are just going to 'suck it up' and keep playing? Certainly not as many as are just going to use the system to go on a killjoy murder spree.
Anyways that's my thought on why the box can be better, as for an actual idea: Alter the gold structure in the box to compensate for the lower development curve. Reward fragile teams with bonus gold according to some system. The banking system is absurd anyways. Damage and rebuilding is part of the game, but it wasn't designed for the frequency the box presents and some teams go broke fast. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 15:50 |
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| koadah wrote: | | Garion wrote: | | +1 to Bill. The box is pretty solid now. We just need more coaches playing in it. |
You currently only have one Box team and it only has 13 games. Are you going to quit again as soon as you lose a game? 
Or when you pass 15-30?
I don't think that people are complaining about young teams.
The young team issue is that some people won't start a new teams unless they can imagine it eventually becoming an old team. |
I know what people are complaining about, and I didn't quit coz I lost a game,  that team had already lost before. I quit because I couldn't stand playing low tv min max.
But that's irrelevant.
Yeah I probably will quit after about 30 games as I don't like this edition of blood bowl at all one you reach about 1700 - 2000. I don't find it fun, and isn't that the beauty of this site, you can take what you want from it. If other people don't like high TV play, don't play there. simples...
No amount of messing with the scheduler will fix that. That would need a rules change. But I think that would be bad idea. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 15:57 |
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| Garion wrote: | | koadah wrote: | | Garion wrote: | | +1 to Bill. The box is pretty solid now. We just need more coaches playing in it. |
You currently only have one Box team and it only has 13 games. Are you going to quit again as soon as you lose a game?
Or when you pass 15-30?
I don't think that people are complaining about young teams.
The young team issue is that some people won't start a new teams unless they can imagine it eventually becoming an old team. |
I know what people are complaining about, and I didn't quit coz I lost a game, that team had already lost before. I quit because I couldn't stand playing low tv min max.
But that's irrelevant.
Yeah I probably will quit after about 30 games as I don't like this edition of blood bowl at all one you reach about 1700 - 2000. I don't find it fun, and isn't that the beauty of this site, you can take what you want from it. If other people don't like high TV play, don't play there. simples...
No amount of messing with the scheduler will fix that. That would need a rules change. But I think that would be bad idea. |
OK, I get you. If you are only going to play 30 games (and most teams play far fewer than that) the Box is fine.
This thread can be locked now.  |
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[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 16:02 |
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exactly 
so what is the problem here? people want to stay at high tv for ever? the only solution to that is to prevent cas from being permanent or to change the rules of the game.
The game was intentionally designed so that teams go to high Tv and then get beaten down.
Sure CPOMB is too good at player removal, but that's the rules we have and if you don't like playing against those high tv killers play low to upper mid TV or play ranked. The site already provides us with plenty of options so what's the issue here? |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Oct 15, 2014 - 16:30 |
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| Garion wrote: | exactly
so what is the problem here? people want to stay at high tv for ever? the only solution to that is to prevent cas from being permanent or to change the rules of the game.
The game was intentionally designed so that teams go to high Tv and then get beaten down.
Sure CPOMB is too good at player removal, but that's the rules we have and if you don't like playing against those high tv killers play low to upper mid TV or play ranked. The site already provides us with plenty of options so what's the issue here? |
It's not about staying at high TV. It's that if your team gets old the chances of drawing a CPOMBer get higher. Whether your team has high TV or not. So, not just playing a lot of CPOMBers but probably playing up vs a lot of CPOMBers.
Maybe it's better now. Let me know when you pass 30.
As for
| Garion wrote: | | ...that's the rules... |
We know how to get around that. Still couldn't get rid of Bill though. |
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[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Oct 15, 2014 - 16:35 |
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Haha that's funny, good old bill
The chances of playing cpomb at high tv are higher - so leave them to it, let them cpomb the crap out of each other while everyone who doesn't enjoy that side of the game can play in the two aforementioned ways. I dunno, personally I just think nothing can be done about it because that's the rules.
I have always said removal of traits was terrible for the game, if PO and Claw were traits and fouling was buffed, this would never have been an issue. |
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NickNutria
Joined: Jul 25, 2006
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| Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 16:49 |
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I don't think that clawpomb or blackbox is the issue, people just don't like to get their teams destroyed while nobody has a problem with destroying other teams. I played all races and it is very easy to get games with soft teams like woodies, everybody would like to play them while killerteams like chaos,chaosdwarfs or nurgle have a hard time to get games at all.
If winning the game would be more important than destroying the opposition, maybe more players would choose a bigger diversity of teams.
By the way: the last games in box were quite a lot fun for my teams, it isn't that bad. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Oct 15, 2014 - 17:14 |
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| Garion wrote: | haha 
Maybe there will be something little coming that will see an increase in box games. Nothing game changing, but pretty... |
DID SOMEBODY HINT AT DIRTY TRICKS?
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Oct 15, 2014 - 17:15 |
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| Endzone wrote: | | Jimmy, in principle would you welcome a change that saw more volume and diversity in the Box - or do you think it is perfect as is? |
I don't think any change would see more volume in the box, and even if it did it would just come from other divisions. I think the amount of diversity is fine. I don't believe that false diversity should be engineered - let people play how they want. |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Oct 15, 2014 - 17:17 |
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| Wreckage wrote: | There is actually a simple way to manipulate all aspects of a free environment.
If you look at how the market works: Rather than making products illegal, taxes are put on them to reduce demand.
Similarly box simply needs to favor and be biased towards unpopular teams in some way and they will become more popular. |
ARR you serious? |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Oct 15, 2014 - 17:18 |
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Jimmy is always right. |
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Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Oct 15, 2014 - 17:22 |
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| Garion wrote: | | +1 to Bill. The box is pretty solid now. We just need more coaches playing in it. |
Surprisingly, Australians have really picked up the pace and have been able to supply me and a few other Western Hemisphere folks with a steady stream of games between 02:00 and 8:00. There's some fresh blood in Box, finally, but it might be beneficial to help some of this fresh blood get better at the game before they burn out due to frustration. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 17:23 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: | | Garion wrote: | haha
Maybe there will be something little coming that will see an increase in box games. Nothing game changing, but pretty... |
DID SOMEBODY HINT AT DIRTY TRICKS?
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no |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Oct 15, 2014 - 17:24 |
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| Relezite wrote: | | Tarabaralla wrote: | | In a TT league, the clawmbpo spammer would be simply forced to change team after a while, because no one would like to play those matches. |
This sums up my feeling on the matter. The box could be amazing, but really the culture of it tends to grind out fragile teams. Players who are dissatisfied with the box culture leave and the general 'voice' turns to favor the status quo. More and more coaches fall into it and use the random pairing to field teams that otherwise would not see play in leagues and ranked. In a well balanced, competitive, random draw these teams would not be as common because they aren't really they good at winning, just good at setting the general development curve of the division lower. You can see the effort some organizations (ARR, Human League) are making to depolarize the box, but the reality is that as long as cpomb blood gush fantasy teams are being built, the box can never reach its full potential because these games have the highest potential of being the dullest most frustrating experiences Blood Bowl has to offer. And how many people are just going to 'suck it up' and keep playing? Certainly not as many as are just going to use the system to go on a killjoy murder spree.
Anyways that's my thought on why the box can be better, as for an actual idea: Alter the gold structure in the box to compensate for the lower development curve. Reward fragile teams with bonus gold according to some system. The banking system is absurd anyways. Damage and rebuilding is part of the game, but it wasn't designed for the frequency the box presents and some teams go broke fast. |
I already proposed a life insurance system for av7 players just so you weren't stuck in journeymen hell for a few games. |
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