Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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 Posted:
Feb 19, 2012 - 19:26 |
 
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| SvenS wrote: | | Frenzy on rats make sense but would make them pretty nasty bashers and up their cost. |
I don't know that any cost increase would be needed, since they're still St2, lack G access, and Frenzy + Really Stupid combine almost like a mild negatrait.  |
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Synn
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
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Feb 19, 2012 - 19:31 |
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Also.... should they have loner?
The fluff would justify it and any chance to lower their cost would rock.
__Synn |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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Feb 19, 2012 - 19:34 |
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| Synn wrote: | | Also.... should they have loner? |
Do you mean with our without Frenzy?
Sven,
Alternatively you could go with something like this:
0-1 Rat Ogres 6 5 2 8 Loner, Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Wild Animal, Prehensile Tail - S, (Ph) 140k
0-2 Packmasters 6 3 3 7 Dodge, Grab, Tentacles GA, P (Ph) 80K
0-6 Giant Rats 6 2 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, No Hands, Really Stupid, Frenzy, Piling On - A, Ph 60k
0-16 Throtlings 5 1 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, Titchy - A, Ph 30k
Making the packmasters the Stars of the team (and forcing at least a few Throtlings onto the pitch). |
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Sigmar1
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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Feb 19, 2012 - 19:54 |
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I only just saw this thread so I haven't read what's been discussed before...
but instead of making the packamasters ST3 with G, have them remain st2 with G access and change the Giant Rats to 0-4 6336 Dodge, No Hands, RS, Frenzy - AM
ST3 no stunty would make them tougher but less able to get into a cage, but ST3 frenzy has obvious advantages so that's why there's four max, plus the packmasters with G access would still be the primary blitzers once skilled up and you'd have to play with more Throtlings. And I'm just not a fan of Piling On. We've all seen its overpowered.
The team would then have five players over st2 but have to field minimum four st1 with the packmasters being the glue that holds the team together. |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2012 - 20:08 |
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| Sigmar1 wrote: | | change the Giant Rats to 0-4 6336 Dodge, No Hands, RS, Frenzy - AM |
0-4 would take away from the identity of the team though, since the Packs are the theme. Plus I think it'd be too similar to the Squig roster.
| Sigmar1 wrote: | | And I'm just not a fan of Piling On. We've all seen its overpowered. |
I don't think it'd be OP without G or S access. |
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Olesh
Joined: Jun 24, 2010
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Feb 19, 2012 - 20:15 |
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Craftnburn: If the Packmasters have ST3, a price increase is certainly warranted.
Throtlings: These seem okay by me. Just remember that titchy is basically Two Heads in stunty league as most players have stunty and would ignore TZs when dodging.
Giant Rats: 0-6 is too many. With full positionals, you'd only be fielding two throtlings. This is exacerbated if you had the original 0-2 rat ogres and 0-3 packmasters, as you could avoid fielding throtlings until something ended up going out. Furthermore, they're too cheap for their price. Eshin Adepts are 40k, and these guys are only +20k more for two doubles skills and physical access? Really Stupid and No Hands don't provide THAT much of a discount.
Packmasters: Using a stock goblin (6237), for two doubles skills you should be paying 100k. Losing stunty and gaining G access, as per the example of the Head Carver, is worth another 20k (reduced by 10k for being over 100k), bringing it to 110k.
Here would be my revised suggestion:
0-1 Rat Ogre 6 5 2 8 Loner, Wild Animal, Mighty Blow, Frenzy, Prehensile Tail - S/APGM 140k
0-2 Pack Masters 6 2 3 7 Dodge, Grab GAP/SM 100k
0-4 Giant Rats 6 2 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, No Hands, Really Stupid, Frenzy, Piling On - AM/SGP 80k
0-16 Throtlings 5 1 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, Titchy - AM/GSP 30k
A lineup up of 12 players would cost you 780k, which is a bit more than most teams but certainly in line with having an expensive big guy + ten doubles skills starting on the roster for the rest of your positionals.
Edit: | Craftnburn wrote: | | 0-4 would take away from the identity of the team though, since the Packs are the theme. Plus I think it'd be too similar to the Squig roster. |
I'd think having 0-6 Giant Rats would be too similar to the Squig roster, not the reverse, considering you'd have 6 Giant Rats vs 6 Squigs (between the two varieties).
When considering a roster, I will always, always provide balancing suggestions first. It doesn't matter how fluffy a team is if the roster is grossly unbalanced. |
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SvenS
Joined: Jul 07, 2007
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2012 - 20:24 |
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Dont forget the lack of ball handlers if you refrain from throts! |
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IL-S
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Olesh
Joined: Jun 24, 2010
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2012 - 20:29 |
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SvenS: Ball handling isn't really a concern when half of your team on the pitch has Frenzy and Piling On. |
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SvenS
Joined: Jul 07, 2007
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2012 - 20:48 |
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Uhm make that OR.
For those not feeling like reading the whole thread I guess I should explain my thinking behind the packmasters.
They are the glue of the team both handling the ball and especially controlling the rats!
I do not wanna make them into the teams best (non big guy) blitzers as that doesnt fit the fluff (most masters lead from the back).
Thats why I opted for them staying at st2 and why I hesitate to give them G access.
The team will have potent but unreliable bashing power and for Moulder that power should come from their pets!
That said I think the packmasters should remain 0-2.
Now that most teams get some guy with G access I can see adding the ratcentaur (with bonehead instead of loner) 0-1 G (ph) access though.
Not sure he's actually needed though? |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2012 - 22:34 |
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Sven:
No, I don't think the Ratcentaur really adds much (other than just a place to stick G access). Also, I don't think even with G access you'd be willing to use the Packmasters as your Main blitzers (what then is the ROgre doing?) because without their leadership half your team stands around doing nothing...
Olesh:
Yes the Packmaster's lack of cost change was an oversight.
I definitely think the Giant rats should be 0-6 since that's the main theme of the team. Even if that leads to a lack of Throtlings you're still only getting St2 Stunty players who are incredibly unreliable.
Perhaps:
0-1 Rat Ogres 6 5 2 8 Loner, Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Wild Animal, Prehensile Tail - S (GAPM) 140k
0-2 Packmasters 6 3 3 7 Dodge, Grab, Tentacles G (ASPM) 100K
0-6 Giant Rats 6 2 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, No Hands, Really Stupid, Frenzy, Piling On - A, (ASPM) 60k
0-16 Throtlings 5 1 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, Titchy - A (GSPM) 30k
When I consider a roster, I consider the team, and it's players as a whole instead of sticking to some hypothetical mathematical formula. It doesn't matter if the numbers match some equation, because not all skills are equal in every situation. |
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MisterFurious
Joined: Aug 11, 2010
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Feb 19, 2012 - 23:13 |
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Olesh is right. Balance is far more important than fluff. Fluff is a good starting point, but you can't be a slave to it if it breaks the game. It's fine if a team is underpowered, but overpowered teams are detrimental to the game (see high TV Chaos).
90% of the teams people make up are vastly overpowered. All the teams in Blood Bowl have some kind of strength and some kind of weakness to balance it out. Skaven are fast and can handle the ball but are incredibly fragile and get beat up. Dwarves are great at bashing the crap out of teams, but are incredibly slow. Most people want the strengths but don't want the weaknesses so when they make their own team up, they make one that can handle the ball like Elves and smash face like Orcs. I'm not saying that SvenS specifically did that, but that's what most people do. You see the same thing on RPG forums for games like D&D when people make up their own classes. Most of them are great at everything and weak at nothing. If you have a team that is too strong, then the majority of people will play that team and that's not good. You don't want the Stunty Leeg to be 90% Clan Moulder teams because that team is the strongest (see the Black Box). |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2012 - 23:21 |
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| MisterFurious wrote: | | Olesh is right. Balance is far more important than fluff. |
I would say Balance is AS important as fluff, certainly not "far more important". Without Fluff Stunty doesn't even exist. You want balance? Make all the teams the same. Obviously nobody wants that.
| MisterFurious wrote: | | I'm not saying that SvenS specifically did that, but that's what most people do. |
I haven't seen any of that here, not sure why you bring this up..
| MisterFurious wrote: | | You don't want the Stunty Leeg to be 90% Clan Moulder teams because that team is the strongest (see the Black Box). |
If you think it would, perhaps you're missing the point of Stunty in the first place. |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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| Posted:
Feb 20, 2012 - 05:34 |
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Is there any place for the Abominations ( ) and the Flayerkin ()? Imo two of the Clans top selling products should be in the roster.
Initial idea:
Flayerkin 4 3 2 8 (SM)
Claw (representing their mutilated limbs)
No Hands (obviously)
Abomination 5 6 2 8 (SM)
Prehensile Tail, Break Tackle, Claw, Disturbing Presence, No Hands, Really Stupid, Stand Firm or something |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 20, 2012 - 05:48 |
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Why do big rats have piling on? What about guard- strength in numbers. Would be an awesome combo; really stupid, frenzy, guard. |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 20, 2012 - 06:15 |
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| Overhamsteren wrote: | | Why do big rats have piling on? |
You ever seen rats swarm on food/prey? Piling On makes Total sense! |
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