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origami

Joined: Oct 14, 2003

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 02:38

EvolveToAnarchism wrote:

Peikko, get over it!
Stop being a Really Stupid Troll!

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It is difficult to have a rational conversation when either party stoops to this sort of thing. If the person isn't being a troll, then you have just pissed him off. If the person is a troll, then you have merely played into his hands.

EvolveToAnarchism

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 02:59

origami wrote:

Or the Troll continues his Trollish behaviour because nobody publically shames him for his trollish behaviour and he feels all justified because of his position on some hierarchical tree.

Or the Troll recalls the various PMs or private IRC conversations he's had with you were you've explicitly discussed his trollish behaviour and realizes that he's doing it again and stops.

Or you vent your frustration at the Trolls repeated lies, misrepresentations and irrational rantings in order preserve you sanity, knowing full well that some don't know the whole situation and will jump to uninformed conclusions and sidetrack your future rational postings.

_________________
Ignorance is Strength quis custodiet ipsos custodes As Always, Evolve To Anarchism

EvolveToAnarchism

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 03:00

Myth: I hate the recent changes to the Snotling roster.
Fact: I belive the changes are generally positive. They address the 2 big issues facing Snotlings (too much carnage and too little scoring).

Myth: I am whining about the changes.
Fact: My initial concern was with how the changes were implemented. "Snotling Heroes" were implemented out of the blue with no chance for feedback. They created new problems which could have been easily avoided if there had been some discussion about this change. To suggest a quick remedy to these problems seems hardly like whining to me.

Myth: Constructive criticism is whining.
Fact: People often criticize because they believe things could have been done better. Sometimes they actually take the time and effort to provide reasons why they think their suggestions are better than what has been done/or has been proposed. To dismiss there reasoning as whining is incredibly disrespectful especially when you show little interest or ability in explaining why your changes are better.

Myth: Grandathered Sporeflingers will not be a problem because they will die rather quickly, because they are Stunty afterall.
Fact: I've had 2 Sporeflingers for 37 games each. With Regeneration they will likely continue to haunt the Stunty Leeg for quite some time. That is unless my 2 Sporeflingers are a big time statistical anomaly amongst the 686 Snotling teams.

Myth: Changin existing players that have developed into some way with skills gained is not even thinkable option.
Fact: It is a thinkable option. I just thought it. Heck! It's even been done before. Players have changed repeatedly with the various Rules Reviews and changes to Stunty Leeg rosters. This would not be something new.

Myth: A Snotling with MA 5 and Pro has radically different skill choices than a Snotling with M4 and Poison Dagger. It would be an unthinkable travesty if one morphed into the other.
Fact: Both the "Snotling Hero" and "Sporeflinger" only have AG skills to choose from. Sure some coaches would want to change their skill selections now that it has Pro instead of Poison Dagger. But are these changes that different from any of the other changes that have happened in Stunty Leeg (Brownies to ST1, Changes to Wild Animal, Changes to Hypnotic Gaze, etc.)? The player would still be a snotling, it's not like you are changing an ogre into a dwarf or something. It certainly would be better than just deleting everyone's Sporeflingers as some have suggested this might have been a thinkable option.

Myth: I was whining about Big Guys in Stunty Leeg becoming different from Big Guys on the rest of FUMBBL.
Fact: I wanted the issue to be given a full wide open discussion. I thought there were strong arguments for both sides but I thought there likely were parts of the issue that I didn't know. Some people labeled that as being supportive of making Big Guys consistent with the rest of FUMBBL, but I explicitly stated to Peikko that I wanted to promote that disccussion. Unfortunately contrary to my explicitly and repeated insistence on this topic, Peikko chose to believe that not only I had reached a decision but that I was whining about the issue. Fortunately, others continued the discussion, even after Peikko had laregley dismissed them as whiners, and came up with several more arguments in favour of consistency. My current position is that I'd like to see Big Guys be consistent with the rest of the site but only if there is strong support for that posisiton.

Myth: Anarchism is all about chaos and is incapable of dealing with practical problems.
Fact: I find it disturbing that someone who has been around FUMBBL so long would post such gibberish. Anarchism is a legitimate political philosophy with many variations. Many parts of FUMBBL have been run along models/priniciples that are consistent with anarchism to claim otherwise is foolish.

_________________
Ignorance is Strength quis custodiet ipsos custodes As Always, Evolve To Anarchism

gigantorjap

Joined: Dec 13, 2003

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 03:37

i agree it would have been better to just change the heroes into sporefllingers....not adding ANOTHER positional

peikko

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 08:38

EvolveToAnarchism wrote:

Myth: I am whining about the changes.
Fact: My initial concern was with how the changes were implemented. "Snotling Heroes" were implemented out of the blue with no chance for feedback. They created new problems which could have been easily avoided if there had been some discussion about this change. To suggest a quick remedy to these problems seems hardly like whining to me.

In your first reply on Snotlings Changed ( http://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4159&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=24 ) Your big problem seemed to be that there is new positional instead just dropping daggers from spores and giving them pass. And you cleverly ended your comment with quote you seem to love to use unbelievably much even when you jumped on the ceiling when I used that as intended joke for first time.

On your next post ( http://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4159&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=28 ) you managed to show how constructive your feedback is as starting with personal attack and including 2 nonexistent problems. 1) Snotlings have been downgraded now for 2nd time within half year and you think grandfatheres spore flingers are big problems and causing somekinda new twist in their balancing, huh. 2) the opportunity to add some fluff seemed to be big problem for you also. Pretty strange coming from man who suggest sometimes utterly unbalanced ideas into stunty in the name of fluffyness.

Quote:

To dismiss there reasoning as whining is incredibly disrespectful especially when you show little interest or ability in explaining why your changes are better.

I dont know about you, but I have work and something called life. If something is already answered multiple times and people still keep claiming this like this I suggest next time they are goin to spend five minutes writing about how they are supposedly not heard they would instead read past posts. In addition you really think its my job to answer to every single opinion posted about stunty?

Quote:

With Regeneration they will likely continue to haunt the Stunty Leeg for quite some time. That is unless my 2 Sporeflingers are a big time statistical anomaly amongst the 686 Snotling teams.

As previously stated, this aint even problem. Take a look at ranked/dx and youll still find lots of old teams with grandfathered players from way back. Stunty Leeg is open league and you can decide if you want to play against these teams or not.

Quote:

Heck! It's even been done before. Players have changed repeatedly with the various Rules Reviews and changes to Stunty Leeg rosters. This would not be something new.

No it has not been done. They are 2 different players. There has never been player position changed to other and keeping those skills in Fumbbl history. In any division.

Quote:

Fact: Both the "Snotling Hero" and "Sporeflinger" only have AG skills to choose from. Sure some coaches would want to change their skill selections now that it has Pro instead of Poison Dagger. But are these changes that different from any of the other changes that have happened in Stunty Leeg (Brownies to ST1, Changes to Wild Animal, Changes to Hypnotic Gaze, etc.)? The player would still be a snotling, it's not like you are changing an ogre into a dwarf or something.

So, if race name keeps its same player? And if players main focus is stabbing people it will choose same agility skills than player who is more focused to be main man in attack and defence? I dont see any point on what you are claiming, they are different players and there still aint any big problems on granfathering spore flingers.

Quote:

It certainly would be better than just deleting everyone's Sporeflingers as some have suggested this might have been a thinkable option.

It is not option. Even deleting them or better yet, refunding each spore would need straight database editing and only one who is able to do that is Christer. As there is some people who would rather see Stunty Leeg deleted and it exist only cause its free weight on stunty it is not very important part of the fumbbl and Christer has much more usefull and important tasks in other divisions.

Quote:

Some people labeled that as being supportive of making Big Guys consistent with the rest of FUMBBL, but I explicitly stated to Peikko that I wanted to promote that disccussion. Unfortunately contrary to my explicitly and repeated insistence on this topic, Peikko chose to believe that not only I had reached a decision but that I was whining about the issue. Fortunately, others continued the discussion, even after Peikko had laregley dismissed them as whiners, and came up with several more arguments in favour of consistency. My current position is that I'd like to see Big Guys be consistent with the rest of the site but only if there is strong support for that posisiton.

After decisision was made to keep general access some people kept claiming same things over and over. They were offered way to prove their way, non-g-bg's, is better by playtesting their idea in u or s with teams where big guys dont have genertal skills. Couple tournament groups were formed and thats all. I havent heard about single result testing these.

mutescreamer

Joined: Apr 09, 2004

Posted: Jan 17, 2005 - 17:25

Personally I like seeing grandfathered players around.....makes it more satisfying when you kill them

MWAHAHAHAHAHAAA

(sorry thought i would offer some vague form of immaturity to alleviate this sense of tension)

Kommando