tuco
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
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 Posted:
Feb 10, 2008 - 01:55 |
 
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If you are like me, you have been greatly enjoying watching some members of the community pursue their private vendettas against each other in recent posts.
I must admit that I too have a couple coaches against whom I bear serious grudges, both for disconnecting (though I do not name them in posts, mostly because I think it would result in me getting in trouble rather than them).
Some time ago I was surprised to see that one of these disconnecters had become a respected and top-level coach. But I also do not think that I am the only opponent that he screwed in the past by disconnecting when things didn't go his way. I got the sense that others knew he had been like this in the past, but he didn't pull crap like that any more and there had been some forgiveness.
This floored me. Forgiveness? For a cheater? Why? It never had even occured to me to even think of forgiving someone who had dishonored his own name. The most obvious thing to do in my mind was to hold a grudge against him and his children and his children's children. Does this make me a dwarf?
And yet at the same time, I do remember my dad telling me about the guy who shot Jessie James in the back many years after he had retired from killing and become a more or less "honest man" (though I think he was in hiding and obviously lying about who he really was). That dude who shot Jessie James was a villain in my dad's story. Why? Partly because of the coward aspect of shooting an unarmed dude in the back. But also because there is the innate human moral understanding that there is some kind of "statute of limitations". Our laws provide for them - I believe people naturally hate to see someone whom has truly reformed suffer the punishment for acts they committed back when they were bad.
What do you all think? Is there a satute of limitations? Is there room for forgiveness in this league? What is the duration of dishonor? |
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Don't ask Nuffle for better dice, ask him to make you a better player.
Last edited by tuco on %b %11, %2008 - %01:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Feb 10, 2008 - 02:05 |
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Holding grudges grows tiring after a while. I think it's just that.
People do forgive. The important thing to keep in mind is that being forgiven is not a right, but a nice thing to be thankful for.
If there could be an answer to your question, it would lose sense. Forgiveness is a gift, there's no law or code saying when it's due, because it's NOT due. |
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tuco
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
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Feb 10, 2008 - 02:13 |
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Very, very well put Jan. |
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Don't ask Nuffle for better dice, ask him to make you a better player. |
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Fizban
Joined: Sep 09, 2003
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Feb 10, 2008 - 02:13 |
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What Jan said.
Plus people learn. We all make mistakes, behave badly and, from the reactions of those around us, learn how to behave better. It is part of fitting into a community. If we have learned enough about how to behave properly, we start to teach others. Eventually, we are considered wise (who knows when this happens...), even though there are those who remember when we needed help choosing our first skills. |
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tuco
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
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Feb 10, 2008 - 02:19 |
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Jan - And yet, in addition to being about individuals forgiving each other, my example is about the community forgiving individuals. How does the community decide when it is ready to make that gift? |
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Don't ask Nuffle for better dice, ask him to make you a better player. |
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Astarael
Joined: Aug 14, 2005
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Feb 10, 2008 - 02:24 |
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REPENT SINNERS.
I forgive thee. |
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Oh my. |
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Andilas
Joined: Feb 07, 2008
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Feb 10, 2008 - 02:42 |
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As for Pat Garret, the dude who shot Jesse James, well... There is no statute of limitations on murder. Could have been 100 years later (however unlikely) and they'd have strapped Jesse down into Ole' Sparky like anyone else.
I think holding a grudge can become very tiresome, having held a few myself. It's something that should be reserved for only the most grievous of trespasses. And when it has boiled so long that you know nothing more than hatred for the object of your ire, it's time to let it go. When you do, you will feel the weight of the world lift from your shoulders.
I, for example, will still break the limbs of the only two people to ever cause me to feel this way, but it's more out of principle than a burning desire to see harm come to them.
So hate the person, but also realize that they will get what they deserve, if not by your hand. It is the way of the world for many cultures, and kharma is a wicked dealer to bet against. |
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Roseph
Joined: Oct 19, 2006
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Feb 10, 2008 - 03:14 |
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Its very simple. How strong are you? Cuz carrying grudges is a very heavy load. I have done it .. all it does is weigh you down and make you tired. |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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Feb 10, 2008 - 04:14 |
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just do what ro does when you have a grudge....
go spread your seed to 50 of your wenches, and expand your brood of kids 
--j |
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| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Feb 10, 2008 - 04:38 |
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A person can change... I'm damn sure I'm not the twit I was five years ago.... PeteW isnt the hardcore atheist that he was 5 years ago....
If someone genuinely changes then I can (usually) find it in my heart to forget old grudges if I respect the new person that they are. They arent the same person (very occasionally).
If nothing else then look at this in a selfish way... the more you are prepared to forgive (when behaviour is changed) then the more you promote that behavioural change. South American dictators have been removed in the pat by offering them a genuine amnesty should they step down.... sure they did evil things and will never be punished.... but by offering that amnesty (genuinely) you can make improvement possible. |
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Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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Meech
Joined: Sep 15, 2005
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Feb 10, 2008 - 04:59 |
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I held a grudge once. A 6 fingered man killed my father. So I became the best sword fighter in the world. I finally was able to track him down with the help of a masked man and a giant that spoke like he had a mouth full of marbles. I have had to live with his death every day. It saddens me. |
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Putting the FU in fumbbl since 9/2005 |
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Baron_Samdi
Joined: Mar 17, 2007
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Feb 10, 2008 - 05:59 |
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I for one do not forgive cheating in games of toy soldiers. This game, the board game, and any miniature game are recreational, and I can not forgive someone for cheating in such a trivial thing. To me it shows they have no morals, and that I cant deal with. Charles Manson has no morals. |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Feb 10, 2008 - 06:07 |
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| Baron_Samdi wrote: | | I for one do not forgive cheating in games of toy soldiers. This game, the board game, and any miniature game are recreational, and I can not forgive someone for cheating in such a trivial thing. To me it shows they have no morals, and that I cant deal with. Charles Manson has no morals. |
How about Nelson Mandela... he seems to have things sorted or he at least knows exactly what he dosent know or cant decide. I dont think we'd ever accuse him of being immoral. However...
...has he always been that saintly? if only as a kid I'm sure that he did something for which he needed forgiving. Remember that people change. Sometimes they make mistakes too. |
_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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Kill-Kill
Joined: Nov 22, 2004
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Feb 10, 2008 - 06:46 |
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| SillySod wrote: | | Baron_Samdi wrote: | | I for one do not forgive cheating in games of toy soldiers. This game, the board game, and any miniature game are recreational, and I can not forgive someone for cheating in such a trivial thing. To me it shows they have no morals, and that I cant deal with. Charles Manson has no morals. |
How about Nelson Mandela... he seems to have things sorted or he at least knows exactly what he dosent know or cant decide. I dont think we'd ever accuse him of being immoral. However...
...has he always been that saintly? if only as a kid I'm sure that he did something for which he needed forgiving. Remember that people change. Sometimes they make mistakes too. |
Well, you have to remember, Mandela only blew up a few buildings, not actually killed anyone.
In any case, I don't keep track of people who disconnect on me. I only really remember one concession, and have had a pleasant game with that coach since. |
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Your words are just bloody fallacy
A house of cards, painted white
Tried to recreate Normandy
But you made up the reasons to fight |
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Titon
Joined: Apr 16, 2005
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Feb 10, 2008 - 07:28 |
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1. This is a game, no more no less so the people who cheat with something like this it´s no t deserved to forgiveness just pity for them
2. The most part of people who u could hate for any reason live with with their bless ignorance so u are the hate-poisoned one...
I don´t play twice against cheaters but don´t keep them in my mind... just play and let live xD |
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