cameronhawkins
Joined: Aug 19, 2011
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 Posted:
Sep 25, 2014 - 14:18 |
 
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This is a discussion that will only interest people who care about player records.
So... as some of you record-chasers may know, the following things are true––
With respect to career records, players...
1) Gain 1 passing yard when handing off in the 'forward' direction.
2) Lose 1 passing yard when handing off in the 'backward' direction.
3) Lose rushing yards when moving backward with the ball.
4) Lose passing yards when passing the ball backwards.
5) Neither gain nor lose passing yards when passing the ball sideways (North/South).
6) Neither gain nor lose rushing yards when moving sideways with the ball.
I am of the opinion that
• 1, 2, and 4 should all never be true.
• 5 should also not be true, in respect of the opinion that players should never lose passing yards, but should gain them for a 'side-ways' pass, since such a pass could be just as difficult, game-impacting and epic as any other pass.
• 3 should probably not be true, but is likely necessary in order to prevent players from artificially inflating their records by running back and forth during a stall, etc.
• 6 should remain true.
I would, however, love to hear any contrary opinions if there is something I'm missing. I do not understand the utility of losing passing yards for any reason–– if you get SPP for the completion, then it was seemingly a good and notable play with respect to in-universe events. It is strange to revisit the top lists to find out that my awesome and critical pass caused my player to drop in the rankings!
(On a side-note, I'm not a proponent of unnecessary passing for the sake of SPP farming, and I would be all for eliminating SPP for backwards/sideways passes; elves get enough risk-free SPP anyway. I would be personally fine with eliminating SPP for Quick passes, or for passes that get RR'd. However, gaining SPP seems like the 'stamp of BB-universe approval' and I don't see why such a pass should have any negative impact on your career record.)
In similar matters–– are yards accrued by either player during a TMM? Seems like someone should... |
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The_Great_Gobbo
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
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| Posted:
Sep 25, 2014 - 14:31 |
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Dunt tek away me quik pass spps! Itz ard enuf az it iz ter get skilled gobo passerz!
Agree dat backwurdz shud not lose yards, nor shud gain spp.
Andin off iz not passin an shud give no spp or yardz az it iz ded simple an not teknikally a pass.
Chukkin a lad shud get spp fer der frower an kount az passin yardz, agen only furwurdz. |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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Sep 25, 2014 - 14:44 |
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A. Don't take away SPP passes. You may care about stats all you want, but that's not stats, it's balance.
Maybe take away passing SPPs AND piling on SPPs? Then we can talk. =)
I think 1-6 should ALL not be true. Rushing/passing sideways and backwards can all be valuable parts of team tactics.
Sure, if people want to inflate stats, they can. People already do with meaningless passes. Not a big deal.
(part of this is easily solved by having 2 passing counters: one for forward and one for backward, and one total passed range including sideways).
And yes, distance TTMd, teammates eaten, and number of trolls escaped should all be player stats too. =D |
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xyon
Joined: Apr 19, 2005
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Sep 25, 2014 - 14:55 |
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Yeah, I think all 'negative' counts for rushing/passing backwards should be removed, and all 'null' counts of going sideways should be removed as well, these should all count as positive yards.
Don't remove SPP from any passes. |
_________________
| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | Whenever I think I might be wrong, I check with xyon to make sure I'm always right. |
| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | Hey Xyon you need to change your sig son, I never said anything vaguely like that! |
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cameronhawkins
Joined: Aug 19, 2011
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Sep 25, 2014 - 15:17 |
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| the_Sage wrote: | A. Don't take away SPP passes. You may care about stats all you want, but that's not stats, it's balance.
Maybe take away passing SPPs AND piling on SPPs? Then we can talk. =) |
| xyon wrote: | | Don't remove SPP from any passes. |
Yeah, I was never really suggesting removing SPP for passes, just affirming that I'm not trigger-happy about extraneous passes being incentivised.
That said, I can certainly see the argument for removing them from quick passes (as well or maybe PO) –– SPP should be for things that are difficult, you know... noteworthy. A Wood Elf Thrower passing to a Wood Elf Catcher in adjacent square? That's just lame. Wood Elves can already manage ~20 SPP per game, regularly. They don't need that... I'm all in favor of tweaking the SPP table. And I'd certainly approve of allowing 1 SPP for throwing a player with the ball, or 2 SPP for a long-bomb, 1 for a foul casualty, stunty casualties decreased to 1, etc. However, that is a discussion for another time and place.
| the_Sage wrote: | | And yes, distance TTMd, teammates eaten, and number of trolls escaped should all be player stats too. =D |
Yes, yes, yes. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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| Posted:
Sep 25, 2014 - 15:18 |
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I think the negatives should be kept, but the number of "attempts" should be documented (turns holding the ball for rushing, passes of all sorts for passing), so an average per attempt can be calculated.
I think the current definition of passing squares tells you a lot about coaches and how they use their players. I had a player in [L] complete 10 passes for 17 squares one season and 2 passes for 20 squares the next, because in addition to the two comps (one long, one short) she had a punt, while in the first season she was mostly quick-passing (often backwards) into the cage. |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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cameronhawkins
Joined: Aug 19, 2011
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| Posted:
Sep 25, 2014 - 15:38 |
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| JackassRampant wrote: | I think the negatives should be kept, but the number of "attempts" should be documented (turns holding the ball for rushing, passes of all sorts for passing), so an average per attempt can be calculated.
I think the current definition of passing squares tells you a lot about coaches and how they use their players. I had a player in [L] complete 10 passes for 17 squares one season and 2 passes for 20 squares the next, because in addition to the two comps (one long, one short) she had a punt, while in the first season she was mostly quick-passing (often backwards) into the cage. |
Punts don't actually accrue any yards. (At least, they don't in my experience.) |
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