Dominik
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
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 Posted:
Feb 27, 2015 - 05:42 |
 
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If you propose improved rules for a current ruleset, you should know damn well the current rules. |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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Feb 27, 2015 - 05:57 |
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Give thrall the thick skull skill for free! |
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I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.
Oscar Wilde |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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| Posted:
Feb 27, 2015 - 06:25 |
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This is a thing I've been thinking of: improved likelihood of "doubles" for most G access-only linemen. (Call it "untapped potential" or something.) Probably not thralls or hobgoblins, maybe not zombies/skeletons, but most of the rest of them -- because they're not specialists when they join the league, they have room to grow.
In practice, this leads to the ability to select a "doubles" skill on any roll 10 or better. Or something similar.... increasing the likelihood from effectively 5/36 (because of 12 = +ST) to maybe 8-9/36. I like turning 11s into potential doubles because, while most linos won't take +MA or +AV, a lot of them will take +AG, and +AG or a doubles skill is a potentially interesting choice for a lineman.
PROS: One of the bigger problems with CRP is the way it encourages players to dump their linemen after 1-2 skills and concentrate their TV on stars. Not as much of a problem for players with multi-skill type access on regular rolls -- given enough time and SPP, that dark elf lino can become just as skilled as your blitzer! But for G access-only teams, eh. Giving the linemen a few more chances to get doubles increases the chance that a lineman for one of those teams will become an interesting player in his own right. It also slightly strengthens a number of teams (humans, Norse, etc.) that could use a boost to be a bit more competitive at high TV.
(SIDE NOTE: Maybe also give it to high elves? Seems to fit in terms of flavor.)
CONS: There are some teams who really do not need to be strengthened like this. Not sure it makes sense to give orc linemen easier access to guard/MB, though how many linemen does an orc team run anyway? Similar concerns with skaven linos, due to skaven being a strong team already and "doubles" for them = mutations. And, oh god, Amazons -- though this only applies if people raise their Amazons' TV enough that the linewomen are skilling up, which they should be encouraged to do. (Also, let's face it, a hypothetical LRB7 would probably either overhaul Amazons or dump them entirely.) |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Feb 27, 2015 - 06:38 |
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Second proposal: give halflings G access.
PROS: Everyone hates it when Amazons can blodge at 6 SPP, but what if halflings did it? I don't think this would make them overpowered or even competitive at any TV, because they still have 5/2/3/6 to contend with, but it would make them less hapless, and give them an identity other than "undersized, unarmed goblins who take your rerolls." It seems like halflings, a civilized folk, shouldn't be subject to the lack of competence that plagues the illiterate and mostly insane gobbos.
CONS: We've seen people get awfully close to .500 with halflings. Granted, "they should always be terrible no matter who's coaching them" isn't my favorite argument ("they should be inherently weak" is fine, but not a fan of systematically removing hope.) But I can imagine some min-max coach giving everyone blodge and not much else, exploiting the chef, and being real cheesy at 1250 TV or so. This could be sidestepped by raising the price of the chef for halflings to 150k or 200k, and/or by raising the cost of the halflings themselves.
Also, G access is dirty player access. Maybe you like that idea. I like that idea. But it doesn't fit halflings as an identity, does it? |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Feb 27, 2015 - 06:41 |
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Goblins with General Access:
Pros: Dirty Player on every Goblin
Cons: None |
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kilinrax
Joined: Jan 12, 2015
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| Posted:
Feb 27, 2015 - 12:05 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: | My Changes
Sneaky Git is identical to this new Piling On except works for Fouling and instead of stunned it is ejection, but still carries the armor must break for ejection to take effect.
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Sorry, I've tried reading this three times and I'm still not sure what the change is!
| mrt1212 wrote: |
Sure Feet allows reroll of TTM landing rolls.
Sure Feet allows reroll of Leaps.
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Like the first. The second could make Wardancers with it seriously OP.
| mrt1212 wrote: |
Bombardiers accrue SPP from CAS caused by bombs.
Chainsaws accrue SPP from CAS caused by chainsaw blocks.
Goblin Fanatics can accrue SPP from CAS generated on prone and stunned players.
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What, no stab love? That would make the dark elf assassin usable.
How about 1 SPP for those, diving tackles and crowd surfs?
| mrt1212 wrote: |
Beastmen lose Strength Access except on Doubles.
Pestigors lose Strength Access except on Doubles.
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Significant nerf on chaos/nurgz. Interested to see how that would play out.
| mrt1212 wrote: |
Pro Elf Catchers are 10TV Cheaper
Slann Blitzers are 10TV Cheaper
High Elf Catchers start with Dodge and are 20TV more Expensive
Mummies don't have Decay
Norse Throwers have Sure Hands instead of Pass.
Rat Ogres are 10TV cheaper.
Minotaurs are 10TV cheaper.
Vampires have 60k Rerolls.
Hired Mercenaries only cost 20TV more than their respective position.
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All of these seem reasonable.
| mrt1212 wrote: |
Goblin Fanatics with Thick Skull can suffer KO result on Knockdown and remain on the pitch, albeit in a stunned state that then follows to prone on the next turn.
Goblin Fanatics can use Multiple Block and not move.
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You clearly play goblins more than me 
| mrt1212 wrote: |
Chaos Dwarf Blockers have AV8.
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Seems a bit harsh. Surely they should just be dwarfs with mutations doubles access? Are you trying to nerf them along with regular chaos?
| mrt1212 wrote: |
Casualty Table is changed so that:
Catastrophic Injuries - 61-64: Roll D8 Twice. Treat each result as if 5 had been the leading digit on the Casualty Table. Example would be rolling 6-1, then rolling 4 and 5 would result in Smashed Ankle and Serious Concussion. Apothecary can Reroll the initial 61-64 roll but not subsequent injuries.
Less Drunk Apothecary Change:
Apothecary rolls a D6 - on a 4+, the Apothecary can not roll identical result on CAS table. For example: if he rolls 6-5, reroll until the result is something other than 6-5 through 6-8. For the 5-1, 5-2 paired permanent injury types, reroll until the result is different than the resulting permanent injury (Example: You roll 5-1, if the resulting two D8 results are 5-1 or 5-2, reroll until the result is neither 5-1 or 5-2). Badly Hurts function identical to current rules.
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Like the first change. The second effectively means an apo roll can always save a player from death?
| mrt1212 wrote: |
Star Players are changed from 0-2 to 0-3
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Never played with a TV differential that needed more than 2!
| mrt1212 wrote: |
Weather results on Changing Weather Kickoff result can not be identical to current Weather.
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Would need a new table if the weather was currently perfect, otherwise this would be really annoying.
| mrt1212 wrote: |
Attempting an interception is only a -1 modifier, not -2.
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I'd be interested to playtest this rule, esp how it affected skaven v elves.
| mrt1212 wrote: |
Spiraling Expenses Kicks in at 1850, rather than 1750. |
Thought the trend for NTBB was tougher SE if anything? |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Feb 27, 2015 - 12:40 |
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New proposal.
Normal skill: 20k
Movement or armor increase: 20k
Double or Agility increase: 30k
Strength increase: 40k
Would be still some of them bloaty sometimes (I would still reject some movement and armor and take a normal skill), but much less bloaty on stat increase. |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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| Posted:
Feb 27, 2015 - 13:01 |
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| lemf wrote: | | mrt1212 wrote: | My Changes
Sure Feet allows reroll of TTM landing rolls.
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Now that's the best suggestion of all and very minor,
Thought of this one for years |
I would hate it. There is no reason to make TTM easier. It's too easy already with an AG+ stunty (and every 12 skill rolls, you do have an AG+ stunty).
Plus, Sure Feet is already great for TTM materials as throwing them far enough from the los is almost as hard a passing the lading roll (for MA5 flings at least).
Do not change Stunties, they don't need it!
Ot if you really want to change them, make SG send you to the KO box when banned (but babes wouldn't work), which would automatically buff gobos, and give either 2 G access positionals to flings, or 3 positionals, with respectively G, P, and S access. |
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GLN 17 is out!
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KidCrestHill
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 27, 2015 - 13:37 |
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I'm thinking for humans
0-16 Lineman 6/3/3/8 G 50k
0-2 Throwers 6/3/3/8 sure hands, pass GP 70k
0-2 Blockers 4/4/2/9 none GS 80k
0-2 Catchers 7/3/3/7 dodge, catch GA 70k
0-4 Blitzer 7/3/3/8 Block GS 90k
0-1 Ogre 5/5/2/9 BH,MB,Loner,TTM S 140k |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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| Posted:
Feb 27, 2015 - 13:53 |
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So they keep their blitzers, throwers and ogres, and add two black orcs and two ghouls that get catch for free? Seems like a bit much, no?
I mean, for one thing, why would anyone play orcs over that roster? There are a few other rosters that get undercut by that proposal -- undead/necro become "okay, I guess, if you REALLY like regenerate". But when a proposal makes a tier 1 team like orcs look like a strictly worse roster, that's a bad sign. |
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Beat Claw, Play AV7
(Hell, I ran a forward passing orc team back in the '90s. You probably shouldn't listen to me. Ever.)
Last edited by ahalfling on %b %27, %2015 - %13:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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I think mrt1212's is the first long list of changes that I've mostly liked for a while |
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"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude
Mr. J's LRB7 / Forum |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 27, 2015 - 14:22 |
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mrt's list had pretty decent ideas but he had it easy posting after Fabulander lowered the bar. |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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| Posted:
Feb 27, 2015 - 14:32 |
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| bghandras wrote: | New proposal.
Normal skill: 20k
Movement or armor increase: 20k
Double or Agility increase: 30k
Strength increase: 40k
Would be still some of them bloaty sometimes (I would still reject some movement and armor and take a normal skill), but much less bloaty on stat increase. |
I actually loved it when the stat increases counted just as any other skill. This seems fine though, together with cummulative cost of skills it would solve many teambuilding issues from CRP, which to me is encouraging the legend+rookies formula.
1st skill 10TV
2nd skill 20TV
3rd skill 30TV
...
60th skill 60TV
Optional:
+AG/double +10TV
+ST +20
This way legends would pay for their effectiveness, and having multiple legends on a team would be extremely expensive, while having a balanced team becomes more TV efficient.
Alternatively (or on top), I liked the skill cap/aging proposed in some thread, for which aging doesn't produce injuries but caps the progression of the player, who is unable to gain more skills. |
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Last edited by zakatan on %b %27, %2015 - %15:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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Coma
Joined: Sep 15, 2011
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| Posted:
Feb 27, 2015 - 14:44 |
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Some of my thoughts that could be fun and/or interesting on roster changes (some already mentioned earlier)
Beastmen 6338 Horns GM 50K
Assassin 0-1 7338 Shadowing, Stab GA 90K
Halflings 0-16 5237 dodge, Rstuff, Stunty A 30K
Ogre 0-8 5529 BH, MB, TS, TTM S 140K
Werewolf 0-2 8338 claws, frenzy, Regen GA 110K
Thrall 0-16 6337 Thick skull G 40K
Wardancer 0-2 8347 Block, Leap GA 110K (No dodge or no Treeman access)
Tomb guardians 0-4 4518 Regen S 100K (No decay)
Norse Thrower 0-0 (No thrower at all)
Amazon thrower 0-2 6337 Dodge, Pass GP 60K
Dwarf blitzer 0-2 5339 Block, Thick skull, Tackle GS 80K
Dwarf Blocker 0-16 4329 Block, Thick skull GS 70K (No tackle)
Human catcher 0-4 8337 catch, dodge GA 80K
Slann blitzer 0-4 7338 Diving tackle, jump up, leap, very long legs GAS 100K
Maruaders 0-16 6338 GSM 50K (No regular P access)
Inducement
Wizard(s)
Bring back the toad spell and make a pricelist for the different spells so you can choose wich spell to buy before the game 0-1 of each (and with higher cost than today´s wizard).
Something in the span of 30-40K would be nice to have…
Fix some star players that is just not worth to have due to no core skills and loner.
CLAWPOMB
Just fix it already. |
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Fabulander
Joined: Oct 11, 2014
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| Posted:
Feb 27, 2015 - 15:08 |
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| Wreckage wrote: | | mrt's list had pretty decent ideas but he had it easy posting after Fabulander lowered the bar. |
Well that's nice of you 
So you don't like Bank? I honestly think not including it is an oversight in the current rules. YMMV.
Boosting Sure Feet seems drastic to me. Along with Dodge it is already one of the few skills that allows you to re-roll something you can do more than once every turn. This is already fairly powerful. IMO leaping and throwing players around should be very risky, because the rewards are very high. In many ways this also holds true for the too-easy Going For It rolls, hence my suggestion of a dodge-modifier.
I also think the limit for SE should be lower rather than higher, but I play TT, and FUMBBL's needs might be different. I guess it's a good thing then, that altering break point and step size are already suggested under optional league rules in the current book  |
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