| Poll |
| Which version of the Faeries do you prefer? |
| More Mayhem Classic |
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13% |
[ 4 ] |
| More Mayhem and Mischief |
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33% |
[ 10 ] |
| Enchanted Forest |
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13% |
[ 4 ] |
| Brawny Brownie Brigade |
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26% |
[ 8 ] |
| Faeries' Choice |
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13% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 30 |
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EvolveToAnarchism
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Sep 17, 2003 - 01:10 |
 
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The current roster is going to be changed and soon  . I thought I'd run another poll to get some feedback. It should be obvious which one I prefer but as always I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Curent Roster:
0-1 Basic Treemen: 2-6-1-10 Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Stand Firm, Big Guy, Take Root, Throw Team-Mate 110K
0-6 Basic Pixies: 6-1-3-6 Stunty, Dodge, Hypnotic Gaze, Very Long Legs 60K
0-12 Basic Brownies: 6-2-3-6 Stunty, Dodge 40K
Critique: The team is weak but not completely uncompetive if played in a thoughtful manner. My main beef is that they aren't in the spirit of Stunty Leeg. Almost as boring as the "unstunty" skink team. The only Mayhem Feature they have is hypnotic gaze. IMHO, TTM is the essense of Stunty and almost all teams should have it. They already pay for it (Brownies cost the same as goblins but don't have Right Stuff and -1 AV). Adding TTM and jump up should make them more unique and up their Mayhem Factor significantly. My vision of the faeries was a team that fluttered around the field using hypnotic gaze to do hit and run tactics but when caught got smashed up rather easily.
Response to the poll: I'm glad people like the direction of my experimental faerie rules. I'm under the impression that people found the old faeiries a little boring. I'm worried about the problems of an all ST1 team but the snotlings have shown that it can be done. Hypnotic gaze helps out but I've got some other ideas that might address this potential problem.
Old Ideas:
Basic Brownies: 6-2-3-6 Stunty, Dodge 40K
Basic Pixies: 6-1-3-6 Stunty, Dodge, Hypnotic Gaze, Very Long Legs 60K
Basic Treemen: 2-6-1-10 Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Stand Firm, Big Guy, Take Root, Throw Team-Mate 110K
New Ideas:
Bouncy Brownies: 6-1-3-6 Stunty, Dodge, Jump Up, Right Stuff Ag 30K
Comment: I like the idea of a good counterpart to the snotlings. ST1 and Jump Up make them easily smacked annoying pests.
Brawny Brownies: 5-2-3-6 Stunty, Dodge, Jump Up, Right Stuff Ag 50K
Comment: I included them in case there was an overwhelming dread of an all ST1 roster.
Fast Pixies: 7-1-3-5 Stunty, Dodge, Hypnotic Gaze, Very Long Legs 60K
Comment: With an effective move 8 they should be able to succed at running away which is something ST1 AV5 players should be doing alot of.
Leprechauns: 6-1-3-5 Stunty, Dodge, Strip Ball, Right Stuff 40K
Comment: Snotlings have spore flingers and pump wagons; the faeries have their own little tricksters to balance things out.
Pixie Duster: 6-1-3-6 Stunty, Dodge, Hypnotic Gaze, Very Long Legs, Poison Dagger 80K
Comment: Not included in any of the rosters but an option for those who feel they need a secret weapon, personally I prefer the Leprechaun option.
Enchanted Treemen: 2-6-1-10 Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Stand Firm, Big Guy, Throw Team-Mate 140K
Comment: Faeries without treemen tend to get smashed to bits rather easily. A more reliable treeman is here as an option to balance things out.
More Mayhem Versions of the Faerie Roster
More Mayhem Classic
0-6 Fast Pixies 7-1-3-5 Stunty, Dodge, Hypnotic Gaze, Very Long Legs Ag 60K
0-12 Bouncy Brownies 6-1-3-6 Stunty, Dodge, Jump Up, Right Stuff Ag 30K
0-3 Treeman 2-6-1-10 Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Stand Firm, Big Guy, Take Root, Throw Team-Mate 110K
Comment: This is the one I proposed in the last poll.
More Mayhem and Mischief
0-2 Leprechauns: 6-1-3-5 Stunty, Dodge, Strip Ball, Right Stuff 40K
0-6 Fast Pixies 7-1-3-5 Stunty, Dodge, Hypnotic Gaze, Very Long Legs Ag 60K
0-12 Bouncy Brownies 6-1-3-6 Stunty, Dodge, Jump Up, Right Stuff Ag 30K
0-2 Treeman 2-6-1-10 Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Stand Firm, Big Guy, Take Root, Throw Team-Mate 110K
Comments: Added Leprechauns to give them more of a chance to blitz a ball carrier, but took away the extra treeman. I was tempted to give them the Pixie Duster but although themey it's probably too potent.
Enchanted Forest
0-3 Enchanted Treemen: 2-6-1-10 Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Stand Firm, Big Guy, Throw Team-Mate 140K
0-2 Pixie Duster: 6-1-3-6 Stunty, Dodge, Hypnotic Gaze, Very Long Legs, Poison Dagger 80K
0-12 Bouncy Brownies: 6-1-3-6 Stunty, Dodge, Jump Up, Right Stuff Ag 30K
Comments: The forest takes to the pitch. Sacrifices a couple of pixies for reliable treemen.
Brawny Brownie Brigade
0-12 Brawny Brownies: 5-2-3-6 Stunty, Dodge, Jump Up, Right Stuff Ag 50K
0-6 Basic Pixies: 6-1-3-6 Stunty, Dodge, Hypnotic Gaze, Very Long Legs 60K
0-2 Treeman 2-6-1-10 Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Stand Firm, Big Guy, Take Root, Throw Team-Mate 110K
Faeries' Choice
0-12 Fast Pixies 7-1-3-5 Stunty, Dodge, Hypnotic Gaze, Very Long Legs Ag 60K
0-12 Bouncy Brownies 6-1-3-6 Stunty, Dodge, Jump Up, Right Stuff Ag 30K
0-12 Leprechauns: 6-1-3-5 Stunty, Dodge, Strip Ball, Right Stuff 40K
0-1 Enchanted Treemen: 2-6-1-10 Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Stand Firm, Big Guy, Take Root, Throw Team-Mate 140K
Comments: The title says it all. Lots of choice but at the cost of a treeman or two. |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 17, 2003 - 01:57 |
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You're missing 'none of the above'. 
I voted for the Brawny Brownie Brigade... simply because it doesn't have all str 1 stuntys. Treemen suck in stunty - missing the first half often, are so slow you can't use them to blitz so you need other players to do it, and if they are knocked down the fighting has often moved on by the time they get back up again. Even if you remove take root they are too slow. |
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m0nty
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 17, 2003 - 05:55 |
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I played one of the early faerie rosters, and I gave it up because it was no fun at all. VLL didn't add much to it.
I agree with the Enchanted Treeman - a faerie team without a treeman for the first half turns into a massacre, and it's not fun for either player. The opponent usually has to keep apologising as he triple-die blocks or chainsaws the faeries out of existence.
I don't see a lot of difference between faeries and snotlings, particularly with the above proposals for Regenerate and weapons. The way I see it, there are two ways you can go with ST1 linemen rosters: load it up with uber bashers like big guys and weapons positions, or give every lino Guard so they can protect each other. I tried out the Guard option with my Ooze proposal a while back... perhaps it's time to try it out again? |
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EvolveToAnarchism
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 17, 2003 - 11:13 |
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A few comments:
1) All ST1. Could you give it a try? I'd really like some feedback on this change. I've played a couple of matches with them and haven't found it incredibly crippling. Remember they aren't a bashing team and you may be suprised at how well they can survive with all that mobility. The team is supposed to excel at scoring but needs to be opportunistic on defense. You can't have it all (well that is unless you are skinks).
2) Treemen suck. Couldn't agree more. They are there to suck up some punishment on the LOS. You shouldn't expect them to do much more than that. But that's one of the reasons why I listed Enchanted Treemen as an option . It's also there for fluff reasons. The team is supposed to represent a whole faerie grove taking to the pitch. It would be silly if the grove itself didn't show up.
3) No difference between faeries and snotlings. Are you out of your mind? The faeries are the ultimate mobility team, not accounting for skinks (which I think most would agree are completely broken), while snotlings crawl along with M4. VLL is a cludge to represent the limited flight of the pixies (I had to remove leap because they wouldn't have enough skill choices left in AG if they reached 176SPP). Hypnotic Gaze was their main schtick not VLL.
4) Ooze. Ick! I was tempted to go the ST1 Guard nurglings shortly after they were implemented but they seem like they are doing fine as is.
5) I've got the okay to change the faeries from Mr-Klipp. I'm leaning strongly towards the More Mayhem & Mischief Roster but I'll follow this discussion a while before asking for the changes.
As Always,
Evolve To Anarchism
Experimental Stunty Rosters |
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Jugular
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 17, 2003 - 13:00 |
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I'm a little worried about the AV's of these players. AV6 is pretty harsh and on average will be passed every time but AV5 is just pretty ridiculous. Obviously Faeries should be weak and feeble but i think St1 is enough. An enchanted Treeman is a must in my opinion. The idea of a team this weak without any beef is quite scary. The rest of your ideas seem to be worth looking into....let the playtesting begin  !! |
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psikobunny
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 17, 2003 - 14:13 |
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Another snotling/faerie disparity: Staying power.
Out of the box, well played snots can stand up well against almost any of the other rosters atm (except gnomes- I don't care what people say players starting with Block is not Stuntyish)
Unless you can come up with a solid basis for comparision, I have to agree with Evo, you're out of your mind.
As for the reliable treemen, I'm not sure 30k is enough extra to pay. I also thought of the unfair advantage this gives faeries over vanilla halflings. I'm not saying bag the idea, but can we kick it around some more?
As for strip ball leprechauns, at first I thought this would be fine, but one thing popped into my head: with so many dodgers, ther is a lot of pushing in S league. Does strip ball gain an unfair amount of power? Within the context of Stunty I mean. After all under normal circumstances it would take a doubles roll for an ag skill guy to get it. Again, not a bad idea, just requires a bit of thought. |
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m0nty
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 17, 2003 - 16:16 |
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Similarities between snotlings and proposed faeries:
- linos have ST1, AG3, AV sub-7, access only to A (presumably)
- one type of vanilla big guy (possibly both 0-3)
Now, I am not saying they are completely the same. My point is that both snotlings and faeries share the same problem of fragility. Faeries aren't structured to come up with a different solution to the problem of being massacred by ST2+ lino teams. You may say this isn't the point of faeries... the poll voters can decide, I guess. I'll help test out whatever roster gets put up. |
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EvolveToAnarchism
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 18, 2003 - 10:14 |
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1. Fluff
I believe it's essential to create teams that can reasonably fit into the GW universe with only a bit of mild psyber-fantasy tweaking. That's why I dislike chaos halflings, I'd haver prefered ungors or beastlings (with virtually the same roster but different names). The faeries are just an extension of the wood elves (like the gnomes are to dwarves). If I was more knowledgeable in faerie lore, I'd try to implement a BG faerie creature but I can't think of anything appropriate. And the treeman is already an established entity so I'm not too disappointed. I'd like to hope that people like my fluff justifications for the two other rosters I'd like to see implemented in the future: Horrors and Vamplings (Lots more work needs to be done on them).
2. Unfair advantage over vanilla halflings.
Every team has an unfair advantage over vanilla haflings at the moment. Every team but Goblins and Halflings got access to secret weapons except haflings and gobbos (but gobbos are already stronger than 'flings). I'd like to see the halflings get access to the Master Chef and/or other secret weapons but both probably involve some serious fumbbl coding. I was thinking they could get a Chef (note lack of "Master") who has guard to represent the haflings blocking harder when they see there meal ticket in jeopardy. I'd also like to see the skinks given a more mayhem BG (a Really Stupid, Wild Animal) dino critter because right now they are too dull and probably still too potent.
3. AV 5 on a few faeries.
That was largely a fluff choice but if they need a boost later, it won't take much work to up it to AV6. As always, it's best to design something that is too weak to start and give them a boost later as it's much harder to take things away then give them somthing new. Note the complaints on going the all ST1 route.
4. Strip ball.
It's not nearly as powerful as poison daggers and chainsaws that other teams get as their secret weapon. I definitely didn't want to use the pixie duster but included it because I felt like sharing most of the ideas I had bouncing around in my head. I was hoping that perhaps a surge in synergistic creativity might emerge.
5. Faeries aren't structured to come up with a different solution to frailty.
The snotlings have two heads, regeneration and lots of BGs. The faeries have speed, hypnotic gaze and Treemen. Sure, that's a weaker solution to the frailty issue but they get a much more reliable offense. Both teams have different strengths and weaknesses. I don't see much point in creating new rosters unless they are going to be different.
6. Enchanted Treemen.
That was just an idea that I was another idea that I wasn't terribly fond of. One of the original test rosters had dryads on it. I can't remember their stats but largely rejected the idea because there wasn't any way to make them represent the already GW developped fluff. But right now I've got my heart set on giving them the option for TTM and that doesn't work that well with dryads. So, I was stuck with enchanting the treeman. I wasn't too careful with the cost of the enchanted treemen because in my experience they tend to suck big time in stunty. Personally I'd like to leave this as a something that could be tweaked (perhamps M3 and Take Root) if the team still needs a boost at a later date, it is has potential to be a more elegant solution than giving them 3 Treemen.
As Always,
Evolve To Stuntydom
Daily Show |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 18, 2003 - 11:45 |
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Just a quick point on the chaos halflings. It's not exactly common knowledge that halflings are extremely resistant to the warping influence of chaos. In fact, I dare say that's a wee bit of trivia that the vast majority of warhammer players do not know. Having said that, by the time it was brought to my attention, the chaos halflings had already been going strong for some time. Besides, its really only a minor difference, and the blood bowl world is different enough from the warhammer world to excuse some minor differences here and there. |
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Jugular
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 18, 2003 - 14:24 |
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I agree about the Chaos Halflings. As soon as I saw that I was highly skeptical about the fluff aspect. I also agree that flings need a big boost and Gnomes need taking down a notch. but back to the subject of Faeries. The Dryads idea sounds like it would end up like a Lizzies team (which i think is a nice idea). I see your point about making them weak then boosting them later but im pretty certain that you'll end up bringing it back to AV6, so just as a time saving thing really. However as Faeries are pretty enchanted creatures i think we'd all agree, maybe Regen could be given to them and as they'd be kinda stuntier and skinnier than all other stunties maybe side step and/or jumpup could be given to linos as a balance an entiely 1ST team might make sense.
You've really got me thinking about a Dryad team with Treemen and Faeries as character players. Maybe thought should be given to that at the same time. Thinking about how a Faerie might last in the DivX league in a Dryad team.
Sorry bout the rambling nature of my post :S |
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Jugular
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 18, 2003 - 23:02 |
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This topic has had me thinking a little...slightly out of the ordinary for me I was thinking what with Faeries having a limited ability to fly and their lightness, surely they'd TTM like a dream. Not sure how any reflection of this ability would be implemented but i thought it was worth a mention. So how about a Faerie something like 6 1 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff, Jump Up, Side Step +some flyey thingy ~ 50k 0-2 Normal Treemen I think would make quite a nice team. although in any open Dryad team idea they would be sickeningly good............until someone caught up with them. Still.. swapping Regen for Side Step and increasing price or something could be interesting too. |
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EgorKDie
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2003 - 10:36 |
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Representing their ability to fly (and familiarity with it) maybe Sure Feet to represent their ability to land easier (and I suppose they could use thier wings to provide a bit of a push and give them better chances of those extra squares... |
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EvolveToAnarchism
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2003 - 11:43 |
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| EgorKDie wrote: | | Representing their ability to fly (and familiarity with it) maybe Sure Feet to represent their ability to land easier (and I suppose they could use thier wings to provide a bit of a push and give them better chances of those extra squares... |
The pixies used to have leap to represent short flight but I had to drop it because they wouldn't have any agility skill choices left if they made it to 176SPP.  I gave them VLL instead to represent them gliding up to make an interception (or those sexy long legs that fairies have  )
As Always,
Evolve To Stuntydom
Stunty Fun |
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