Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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 Posted:
Sep 08, 2007 - 05:37 |
 
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| SillySod wrote: | | Craftnburn wrote: | | assuming no skills involved |
this is the stupidest assumption ever, you didn't even consider assist's |
As assists will go both ways, and more often than not AGAINST the Screamer (if he's blitzing the ball carrier) they can't really be included in the equation. What I meant was that Block or Tackle skill on either player is unlikely and not figured into the statistics.
| SillySod wrote: | | agreed, trouble is that this is superb mobility when combined with Mv 9 (not to mention TTM). note that snotlings have to be only movement 4 to stop their skill from dominating. |
Snotlings aren't 0-2 and can actually DO something with the ball if they get to it.
| SillySod wrote: | | not necessarily. a canny player will ensure tha the screamer is used only to harras the ball carrier, popping it loose, wherever it is on the pitch. it also has enough move to hit the ball carrier AND escape. Clever coaches will abuse this player. |
And Clever coaches will make sure that if a Screamer comes for the ball carrier he'll have assists against to prevent the ball coming lose, and probably take out the screamer. |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 08, 2007 - 05:55 |
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| pac wrote: |
Well, yes, that's what I'm getting at: if they don't have hands, what are they doing in a Blood Bowl team? |
Riiiight... It's ok to have Death-Rollers, Squigs, Fanatics, Pump Wagons etc.. but flying Daemons are right out? This isn't the NFL, and if you read the fluff you'll see WHY. |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 08, 2007 - 06:10 |
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| Synn wrote: | Note: this only works if the wizard idea is shot down. Wizards are very powerful in stunty.
__Synn |
No way in hell can you have a Tzeentch team WITHOUT a wizard.. what are you smoking!?  |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 08, 2007 - 06:10 |
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| Craftnburn wrote: | | pac wrote: | | Well, yes, that's what I'm getting at: if they don't have hands, what are they doing in a Blood Bowl team? |
Riiiight... It's ok to have Death-Rollers, Squigs, Fanatics, Pump Wagons etc.. but flying Daemons are right out? This isn't the NFL, and if you read the fluff you'll see WHY. |
I'm quite aware that there are some things in Stunty with No Hands or Ball and Chain, but those are spread out across several different teams. If you had just one, maybe even two, positionals with No Hands on this Tzeentch team, it could be fine, but this many is just silly: the game is played with a ball. Even Trolls can carry the ball!
Look, the Warhammer World has horses right? So why not make a 'horse' team - it fits the fluff perfectly. Horses don't have hands, so let's give all the players No Hands - we'll give them a couple of Centaur positionals who can carry it.
A silly example, right? But, even so, it goes to show that not everything that exists in the Warhammer World has a right to appear on a Blood Bowl pitch - nor would it be wise to put them there.
(BTW, re: flying daemons, yes, things that fly have no place in BB! I've never come across any Griffons on a Human team …)
All this being said, I do like the idea of a Tzeentch-based list - but the one you've proposed, without radical change, just isn't it.
Edit: Why not focus on the Bray list (which some people actually like) rather than on this … rather bizarre one which is, shall we say, less popular? |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 08, 2007 - 06:44 |
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| pac wrote: | | I'm quite aware that there are some things in Stunty with No Hands or Ball and Chain, but those are spread out across several different teams. If you had just one, maybe even two, positionals with No Hands on this Tzeentch team, it could be fine, but this many is just silly: the game is played with a ball. Even Trolls can carry the ball! |
Nothing forces a coach to take all the No Hands players that are available. Furthermore I wouldn't even field them all if I had them, since Flamers and Spawn can get bounced and you need Horrors to score.
| pac wrote: | | Look, the Warhammer World has horses right? So why not make a 'horse' team - it fits the fluff perfectly. Horses don't have hands, so let's give all the players No Hands - we'll give them a couple of Centaur positionals who can carry it. |
Silly example yes, and not the best example either because horses aren't intelligent and aren't under the direction of a super intelligent Chaos God.
| pac wrote: | | Edit: Why not focus on the Bray list (which some people actually like) rather than on this … rather bizarre one which is, shall we say, less popular? |
Because certain people said that the Bray roster would never get selected because it was too conventional! |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 08, 2007 - 13:01 |
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Incidentally, why go for No Hands in the first place? This characteristic shouldn't be overused. Look at the Beast of Nurgle. It's a giant tentacled slug which certainly doesn't have hands, but it doesn't have No Hands. AG 1, Really Stupid and Big Guy do enough to ensure it's not going to be a dynamic ball-player, but it still gets to have the fun of holding the ball once in a blue moon.
(Also, you don't think horses are directed by a super intelligent Chaos god!? I think JockMcRowdy needs to tell you about the evil plans of the devilish Deagostini …)
| Craftnburn wrote: | | Because certain people said that the Bray roster would never get selected because it was too conventional! |
I've scanned through that thread again: who said that and where? And if they didn't say it in the thread, come out of hiding! |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 08, 2007 - 18:05 |
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| pac wrote: | | Incidentally, why go for No Hands in the first place? |
Because Screamers, Discs and Flamers actually DON'T have hands e.g. Screamers
| pac wrote: |
I've scanned through that thread again: who said that and where? And if they didn't say it in the thread, come out of hiding! |
Certain people, with knowledge of what certain other people are looking for in new stunty teams. |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 08, 2007 - 18:09 |
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| Craftnburn wrote: | | pac wrote: | | Incidentally, why go for No Hands in the first place? |
Because Screamers, Discs and Flamers actually DON'T have hands e.g. Screamers |
Yes. Neither do Beasts of Nurgle. Did you read my post?
Edit: Not to mention that all demons are (by definition) mutants. Why shouldn't these be mutant ones which do have the ability to manipulate the ball?
| Quote: | | pac wrote: | | I've scanned through that thread again: who said that and where? And if they didn't say it in the thread, come out of hiding! |
Certain people, with knowledge of what certain other people are looking for in new stunty teams. |
This isn't a secret police state. You're allowed to identify them.  |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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| Posted:
Sep 08, 2007 - 23:10 |
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Sorry, but this needs dealing with simply and nastily...
| Craftnburn wrote: |
I did read what you said. However your Fluff argument is addressed already by the Team Fluff. |
My problem was with that fluff, pointing to it again saying: "look, fluff, I told you I was right" really dosent solve MY issues with it.
| Craftnburn wrote: |
Not to mention that Daemons come in all shapes and sizes, not all are huge. |
Wrong
Saying that not all daemons come in huge sizes dosent mean that not all horrors come in huge sizes. Anyway, as I said: Wrong
| Craftnburn wrote: |
As for 2, Players bringing Chainsaws, Deathrollers, and other absurd things aren't much better than a few no hand daemons. |
I havent looked but I don't think many teams can match the count of 7 no hands players (or otherwise) when they field all their positionals. Personaly, I don't care. I'm just saying that Pac probably knows better than you. Listen to him. |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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| Posted:
Sep 08, 2007 - 23:12 |
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| pac wrote: | | Look, the Warhammer World has horses right? So why not make a 'horse' team |
Don't be silly, horses aren't stunty.
Oh wait... this brings me to another point.... |
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Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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Enar
Joined: Mar 05, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 08, 2007 - 23:43 |
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...and why would these guys even be invited to the pitch in the 1:st place?
/me remembers a thread on space marines...  |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2007 - 00:27 |
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| Enar wrote: | ...and why would these guys even be invited to the pitch in the 1:st place?
/me remembers a thread on space marines... |
Do people actually invite Squigs? or Vampires? or Zombies? or anything else? Arguing for realism here is a bit out place don't you think? |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2007 - 00:41 |
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| SillySod wrote: | | Craftnburn wrote: |
Not to mention that Daemons come in all shapes and sizes, not all are huge. |
Wrong
Saying that not all daemons come in huge sizes dosent mean that not all horrors come in huge sizes. Anyway, as I said: Wrong |
Of course! I'm sure the vast hordes of chaos are very uniform with almost no variation. It's inconcievable that there may be smaller Horrors.
| SillySod wrote: | | I havent looked but I don't think many teams can match the count of 7 no hands players (or otherwise) when they field all their positionals. Personaly, I don't care. I'm just saying that Pac probably knows better than you. Listen to him. |
How many teams can field as many secret weapons as Cheaters? Does anyone think Cheaters shouldn't be allowed?
The point is that YES Tzeentch is a different team than most. A Horrors coach realizes that his positionals are there to assist his horrors, not to win the game themselves. Is that so different than Daredevils, Bombers, and Cannons on a gnome team? They're there to assist the regular Gnomes in winning the game.
It's ok if you (or Pac) don't like the concept, but this team was designed to be different than most teams. If you don't want different, play Goblins, and I won't say a word... |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2007 - 00:55 |
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| Craftnburn wrote: | | The point is that YES Tzeentch is a different team than most. A Horrors coach realizes that his positionals are there to assist his horrors, not to win the game themselves. Is that so different than Daredevils, Bombers, and Cannons on a gnome team? |
It is different. All of those Gnome positionals can carry the ball. A coach may not choose to use them to do it, but that they can. A Blood Bowl player should be able to play Blood Bowl: I don't think that this is a radical idea.
You'll note that even existing No Hands (or equivalent) players are physiologically capable of playing: the Fanatic would be able to play if he wasn't drugged to the eyeballs and busy swinging a ball and chain around; Chainsaws can hold the ball until they set the saw running; the Snotlings on a pump wagon (or the crew of a Deathroller) would physically be able to play if they weren't busy with their contraption; and so on.
The only exception to this that I can think of is Squigs: and that's really not a precedent I think it's wise to follow. The Blood Bowl pitch is no place for horses - or daemonic flying discs.
Edit: However, I do now feel the urge to design Blood Polo … This is the best idea I've had in ages! |
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Last edited by pac on %b %09, %2007 - %01:%Sep; edited 1 time in total |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2007 - 01:03 |
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| pac wrote: | | Craftnburn wrote: | | pac wrote: | | Incidentally, why go for No Hands in the first place? |
Because Screamers, Discs and Flamers actually DON'T have hands e.g. Screamers |
Yes. Neither do Beasts of Nurgle. Did you read my post?
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I think he read the first sentance and got a flash of the blindingly obvious. Obviously, not being able to see hindered him reading the rest of your post.
He dosent read mine either.
BTW: just because things can be all kinds of different forms it dosen't mean that some MUST be small.
This is the same as with beetles. Beetles come in a whole myriad of varieties, god seems to have a real fondness for them. However, the seemingly infinate varies do NOT mean that we have 6 foot tall beetles.
QED
As for the rest, well, cheaters only have 4 no hands players (can chainsaws hold the ball?). Also, supporting play does not mean: "will never, ever be needed to pick up the ball". Remember that. |
_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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