Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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 Posted:
Mar 03, 2012 - 04:38 |
 
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nah, gotta say I'm with Craftnburn on this one; as much as I do disagree with some of his design decisions, and some of the way he expresses his opinions, I believe PsyPhiGrad is the offensive one here. It's one thing to say you disagree vehemently; it's quite another thing to disagree vehemently using confrontational and insulting language. |
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PsyPhiGrad
Joined: Dec 22, 2007
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Mar 03, 2012 - 06:15 |
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Now in an attempt to be much more constructive. There already have been tons of complaints about how poorly design and poorly performing the Horrors roster is. So, I'll be brief about my biggest beefs:
1. It's a horribly overdescribed roster.
2. It's clunkily trying to import WHFB monsters with existing BB skills (Bombs & Safe Throw WTF?)
3. It's wedded to a design ideas that the admins/the client rejects.
4. I don't think it does a good job differentiating itself from the Nurglings and the Gnome rosters.
5. It's an incredibly poorly performing roster.
For these reasons, I think the whole thing should be scrapped and started over from scratch. I don't want to debate these points. They are my opinions. Your mileage may vary. With that in mind, here are a few thoughts that I believe could lead to a new and improved Horrors of Tzeentch roster.
I liked CnB's description:
These shambling daemons consist of innumerable variations of shape, size, and color. These creatures may be small, but their resilience should not be underestimated.
This should be the focus of the team.
With that in mind (and other previously discussed caveats about random mutations being nixed), I propose we should focus on the horrifying shambling and varyin nature of the Horrors.
Horrors are supposed to be horrible to look at, as they are daemonic entities (not little mini demons like nurglings), so I propose that they all get Foul Appearance to represent their scary daemonic nature but they are shambling monsters so NO DODGE and NO AGILITY skills. But they are chaotic and variable, so MUTATION Only skill Access which ought to make them more different from the nurglings and hopefully encourage coaches to make each one unique as befitting the Changer of Ways. "Their resillience should not be underestimated" therefore Not Stunty. Instead of an overdescribed lineman type we have a simple elegant and unique baseline player that follows the addition by substraction design technique.
Horrors become something like:
0-16 M 4/5 S2 A3 Av7 Foul Appearnace M 30K/40K
Instead of an overdescribed expensive lineman we get a cheap and different "stunty" player. I'm a bit concerned about how frail the player might be but without Stunty making them less resilient and FA giving them a pseudo dodge from attacks, I hope they might just work.
Now for positionals, I think we should play up the other part of Tzeentch: Fate by creating a positional known as the Chosen of Tzeentch which is basically just a more fearsome or more lucky version of the Horrors. We could go lots of ways here:
0-4? Chosen of Tzeentch
1. Give them Pro (to represent Tzeentch's Blessing)
2. Give them Strength Access to represent more fearsome mutations and power.
3. Give them a "monstrous skill" like Juggernaut, Stand Firm or Grab.
4. A combination of the above or some cool suggestions from the community.
Other positionals:
We could open up a passing game that can represent Tzeentch messing with the Winds of Change and Warping the ball around by giving them some:
"Warp" Horrors which could have access to some Passing Skills but I'm a little iffy on that idea as it seems like just as much a stretch as trying to represent flames with Bombs and Safe Throw afterall I'm trying to go with the shambling mounds feel, but I still have flickering images of the old Pink and Blue Horrors where this might be more fitting.
Speaking of the Warp. The roster doesn't have regeneration but instead relies on Tzeentch bring his injured back from the Warp just like an apothecary.
Big Guys
I'd like to see something a little different here based off of the Chaos Spawn concept. It could easily go the Ball & Chain route but I'd rather imagine a tentacly-ish (without the skill) kind of spawn lashing out in every direction which could be represented by a Big Guy starting out with Multiple Block rather than Mighty Blow.
If you want to be even more different we could limit them to one Big Guy and give them some Tzeentchian Magic every game with a "rostered" wizard with some custom coding that I'd like to hope wouldn't be too difficult to implement. I'd probably cost it more than the usual at something like 200K.
There you have it: my take on making a new and improved Horrors roster which I believe is much more thematic and doesn't rely on overdescribed clunky WHFB ports (we can add them as Star Players if we must).
Lots of room for feedback as I really just provided a shell of a roster that could use some tweaking by those who are capable of designing non-buggy and balanced roster. |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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Mar 03, 2012 - 10:38 |
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i don't think the stunty bit is negotiable. If you want to make them more resistent give them regen or thick skull. |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Mar 03, 2012 - 12:25 |
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The reworking is probably needed overall. Having lots of little horrors running around as the focus makes sense. |
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“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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SvenS
Joined: Jul 07, 2007
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Mar 03, 2012 - 14:04 |
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Just chiming in to say I still like the teleporting ttm stuff. |
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Olesh
Joined: Jun 24, 2010
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Mar 03, 2012 - 17:55 |
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I appreciate the effort you have put in here, however, I must point you to the stickied post regarding the roster design rules. Go there, read shadow's rules on the subject, and come back. Tell me what you did wrong (because you did), and not only will I consider your design, I'll even help you balance it! |
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Sigmar1
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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Mar 03, 2012 - 19:34 |
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Although PPG offers an interesting alternate vision for a Horrors team, I've always thought the original team presented a unique fluff-appropriate play-style. The MA4 Jump up, TTM linos works quite well. I think the whole roster works well except the Firewyrm, which I'm not a fan of. As for the teams win percentage... who cares? If the team is fun to play and people enjoy playing it, just consider it one of the more challenging teams. |
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Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges! |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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Mar 03, 2012 - 20:59 |
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| Sigmar1 wrote: | | I think the whole roster works well except the Firewyrm, which I'm not a fan of. |
Thanks, my sentiments exactly. |
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PsyPhiGrad
Joined: Dec 22, 2007
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Mar 03, 2012 - 21:23 |
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| garyt1 wrote: | | The reworking is probably needed overall. Having lots of little horrors running around as the focus makes sense. |
My thoughts exactly, thanks for chiming in.
Any suggestions? |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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Feb 19, 2013 - 08:47 |
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played a few stunty games now and it is really fun! 
those horrors rock!
Had some questionable turnovers though due to bombs, but still fun games.
Btw, tackle must be THE skill, right? |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Feb 19, 2013 - 15:14 |
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| Roland wrote: | played a few stunty games now and it is really fun!
those horrors rock!
Had some questionable turnovers though due to bombs, but still fun games.
Btw, tackle must be THE skill, right? |
Great to hear.
And yes, Tackle is the probably the single greatest skill in Stunty if you can get it. |
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Drrek
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
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Feb 19, 2013 - 15:20 |
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| WhatBall wrote: | | Roland wrote: | played a few stunty games now and it is really fun!
those horrors rock!
Had some questionable turnovers though due to bombs, but still fun games.
Btw, tackle must be THE skill, right? |
Great to hear.
And yes, Tackle is the probably the single greatest skill in Stunty if you can get it. |
False. The single greatest skill you can get in stunty is TTM |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Feb 19, 2013 - 15:49 |
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| Drrek wrote: | | False. The single greatest skill you can get in BB is TTM |
Fixed. |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Feb 19, 2013 - 15:57 |
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| Drrek wrote: | | WhatBall wrote: | | Roland wrote: | played a few stunty games now and it is really fun!
those horrors rock!
Had some questionable turnovers though due to bombs, but still fun games.
Btw, tackle must be THE skill, right? |
Great to hear.
And yes, Tackle is the probably the single greatest skill in Stunty if you can get it. |
False. The single greatest skill you can get in stunty is TTM |
That game, huh?
Well then, you are WRONG! Single greatest skill is Always Hungry.
*nomnomnom* |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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Feb 21, 2013 - 15:03 |
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So, what skills to choose?
Haven't read the whole thread but here's my thoughts:
Horrors:
Extra arms, for better ball handling.
Disturbing prescence, -1 to catch the bombs.
Diving tackle, standard stunty skill choice.
Doubles: Block, tackle, pass?
+AV rather than MA (better when thrown)
Greater horrors:
Block, tackle
Doubles: MB, PO, Pass?
Flamers:
Dodge, DT?, SF?
Doubles: Pass, accurate, strong arm, block (so many to choose)
Firewyrm:
Jump up, due to their AG4 it should be pretty ease to jump up and block.
MB, tentacles, claw.
Doubles: Block, tackle |
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