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SvenS



Joined: Jul 07, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 08:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Being the skaven clan that focuses on raising and training animals for war, it would only be a matter of time before some pack trainers took their animals to the pitch!

((0-2 Rats ogres
0-6 Giant Rats 6237 dodge, stunty, prehensive tail, No hands, Really stupid. A, Ph
0-2 Pack masters 6236 dodge, stunty. A, P, Ph
0-12 Throtlings 6236 dodge, stunty. A, Ph

RR's at 70k
Apo yes
Wiz no.

Prehensive tail would be nasty in stunty esp w diving tackle, but on the other hand, the rats need people to tell them what to do and will frequently lose tz altogether.
Giving the pack masters passing access makes it possible to get leader to help the rats being trained better aswell as opens up for an actual passing game.
Having this many no hands/WA players means they will be hard to handle the ball at all if the opponent succeeds in whacking a few clanrats over the head too!

Would this be workable?
Appropriate costs?))



Current suggestion:
SvenS wrote:
Current suggestion for easier access:
0-2 Rat Ogre 6 5 2 8 Loner, Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Wild Animal, Prehensile Tail, Throw Team Mate - S (GAPM) 140k

0-1 Packmaster 6 2 3 7 Dodge, Leader, G,M (ASP) 90K

0-6 Giant Rats 7 2 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, No Hands, Really Stupid, Frenzy, Piling On, Right Stuff - A,M (GSP) 75k

0-12 Throtlings 5 1 3 6 Regen, Dodge, Stunty - M (AGSP) 40k
RRs @70k
Apo yes
Wiz No

Stars:

Abomination 5 6 1 8
Loner, Prehensile Tail, Break Tackle, Claw, Disturbing Presence, No Hands, Really Stupid, Stand Firm
Cost: 250k

Ratcentaur 7 2 3 7 Loner, Dodge, Stunty, Dauntless - 80k

Packmaster lord 7337 Loner, Block, Guard, Prehensive tail (whip) - 130k


Later on if to weak we may:
Give RO M access on normal rolls.


Last edited by SvenS on Feb 24, 2013 - 12:23; edited 9 times in total
Fizban



Joined: Sep 09, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 08:21 Reply with quote Back to top

I like this idea lots.

Perhaps the Pack Masters should start different in some way from the Clanrats.
Should the Giant Rats really be AV7?

The way this team would play is NEW! It would be interesting to try em out and watch the rats swarm around things.

Fiz
mightyblow



Joined: Dec 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 10:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Why should anybody field these giant rats? Really stupid is really really bad on up to 6 players. And why does everybody nowadays shrink ordinary players to stunty-strength? Clanrats, Pack Masters, any reason why they have the statline of a halfling on speed?
johan



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 10:44 Reply with quote Back to top

The team looks functional and reasonably balanced, but I'm not sure what it would add to Stunty.

Everyone but the Rat Ogres should cost 40K.

Note that Stunty will make the Pack Master weak at passing even with P access (although HMP is always an option). You may consider giving them G access (which would up the cost).

_________________
”It's very sad
To see the ancient and distinguished game that used to be
A model of decorum and tranquillity
Become like any other sport, a battleground...”

—Benny Andersson & Björn Ulvaeus, Chess
SvenS



Joined: Jul 07, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 11:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Fizban wrote:
I like this idea lots.

Perhaps the Pack Masters should start different in some way from the Clanrats.
Should the Giant Rats really be AV7?

The way this team would play is NEW! It would be interesting to try em out and watch the rats swarm around things.

Fiz

Thx! =)
Not sure about AV7, but the point is to make players want to use the animals for blocking and use the clanrats for issuing orders and ballhandling mostly.
I guess giving them av6 but making them really cheap might be better?

johan wrote:
Note that Stunty will make the Pack Master weak at passing even with P access (although HMP is always an option). You may consider giving them G access (which would up the cost).

Good point!
I guess removing stunty from them might be a good solution. That would make them slightly more resiliant too, but I prefer not giving them block as they should be leaders mostly not blitzers.


I forgot TTMing aswell. It sure wouldnt be likely to succeed with WAs, but the option might still be fun to have?
Add TTM to ROs and right stuff to the clanrats.
SvenS



Joined: Jul 07, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 11:50 Reply with quote Back to top

mightyblow wrote:
Why should anybody field these giant rats? Really stupid is really really bad on up to 6 players. And why does everybody nowadays shrink ordinary players to stunty-strength? Clanrats, Pack Masters, any reason why they have the statline of a halfling on speed?

Well the team is for stunty league after all! Wink
I guess the grown up handlers are way too busy making wars and stuff and stop playing silly games?! Wink
SillySod



Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 11:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Shocked Clan Moulder? You are missing a golden oportunity of pre-made stunty fluff.

Don't have clanrats as your linemen, have Throtlings! Throtlings are some of the cast of creations and experiments of Throt The Unclean, small test runs etc.... the thing with clan moulder is that you get creatures of all sizes, all genetic experiments or bits of various creatures mutated with warpstone or stitched together.

I agree with mightyblow.... too many proposed stunty rosters take some fluff and kind of say "we have no reason but these guys have halfling stats". However, this is not a problem with this list Smile

_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.

"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced."


Last edited by SillySod on Feb 07, 2008 - 11:59; edited 1 time in total
SvenS



Joined: Jul 07, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 11:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Cool! =)
editing...
SvenS



Joined: Jul 07, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 12:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Modified rooster after feedback:

0-2 Rats ogres+TTM 130-140k?
0-6 Giant Rats 6236 dodge, stunty, prehensive tail, No hands, Really stupid. A, Ph 30k?
0-2 Pack masters 6237 dodge. A, P, Ph 50-60k?
0-12 Throtlings 6236 dodge, stunty, right stuff. A, Ph 40-50k?

RR's at 70k
Apo yes
Wiz no.
Fizban



Joined: Sep 09, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 12:35 Reply with quote Back to top

I think it would be very cool if you could throw the Giant Rats, but not the Throtlings. Then you can't use TTM to 1-turn, but you can use the Giant Rats as missiles or to position them.
johan



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 12:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Cool idea, and you could even give the Rats AG 4 (since they have No Hands).

_________________
”It's very sad
To see the ancient and distinguished game that used to be
A model of decorum and tranquillity
Become like any other sport, a battleground...”

—Benny Andersson & Björn Ulvaeus, Chess
SillySod



Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 12:48 Reply with quote Back to top

SvenS wrote:
Being the skaven clan that focuses on raising and training animals for war, it would only be a matter of time before some pack trainers took their animals to the pitch!


I love it, like I said before I'm amazed that a fluff which is almost designed for stunty could take this long to surface.

Quote:
Giving the pack masters passing access makes it possible to get leader to help the rats being trained better aswell as opens up for an actual passing game.


Leader is a general trait rather than a passing skill (thats LRB5). On the other hand I really like the idea of lots of packmasters running up and down whipping the rats into line. If we can find some way of making the packmasters better at doing this job than the throtlings then that'd be great.

I couldnt find a description of Throtlings on the GW website so if someone could type it up from the army book that'd be great.

I did find this nice picture though, I'm sure someone else will find a better one but here it is for now:
Image
(edit: teh image is borked and I can only get a cut down version to display. I blame GW)

Quote:
0-2 Rats ogres
0-6 Giant Rats 6237 dodge, stunty, prehensive tail, No hands, Really stupid. A, Ph
0-2 Pack masters 6236 dodge, stunty. A, P, Ph
0-12 Throtlings 6236 dodge, stunty. A, Ph

RR's at 70k
Apo yes
Wiz no.


It strikes me though that throtlings can be pretty much whatever size you want them to be (Throt makes stuff thats anywhere between maggot size and the largest of the Rat Ogres anyway.... and he makes alot of everthing.... and he isnt alone. This gives us the chance to tinker with a few different interpretations of some things in the list.

Rat Ogres - having two of them is nice, the list isnt just about the rat ogres but it gives them their giant mincing thing which everyone loves and acts as a focal point for the team. Keeping them as per LRB is nice and I cant see any reasons to change it, the prehensile tail and frenzy gives them lots of potential but the wild animal and frenzy might make them tough to position.... bear in mind that they will fare alot better in stunty than in normal BB.

Giant Rats - these are going to be the hardest thing about the list to make balanced. I love the idea of really stupid and the idea that you can have a full 6 of them if you want, it seems very stunty and it means that they'll end up needing to be tended to by the packmasters.

Prehensile tail on all of these seems like a bad idea though... as well as being quite mean it will encourage players to not move the rats or block with them etc.... which would be a shame. Whether they need compensation for this loss or not I dont know.

Packmasters - The agility/passing access is really nice for them, I'd keep them as they are but increase them to 0-4 perhaps.

Throtlings. The way they are in your list at the moment is perfectly fine, they do a nice job and are perfectly well themed. However.... I was thinking about how the roster might work, especially with giving players a real incentive to move and block with the giant rats and to give the packmasters even more stuff to do.... how about this:
Throtling - 6 1 2 6 Dodge, Stunty, Two Heads? Twisted Evil
The idea here is that the throtlings arent really ball handlers, nor all that agile since they're mostly made by "improving" existing creatures. They might have several heads (or just be hard to spot their direction) so two heads is fine fluffwise, this forces the packmasters to deal with the ball (although the throtlings are fast enough to be good at dodging and recieving a hail mary). The low strength means that you are pretty much forced to use the giant rats as your blockers, forcing the Moulder coach to have to try and deal with all that Really Stupid Twisted Evil The packmasters make good blockers (compared to throtlings) and will be harder to push off of the giant rats.... so they'll be really wanted pretty much everywhere on the pitch.

_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.

"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced."


Last edited by SillySod on Feb 07, 2008 - 18:37; edited 2 times in total
SvenS



Joined: Jul 07, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 13:04 Reply with quote Back to top

I like the idea of making the throtling st1!
Not sure about lowering em to ag2, but if we do then the team would indeed need more packmasters!

Too bad leader is G in lrb4! =(

Throwing rats sounds fun, although perhaps unlikely to happen with both WA and RS to deal with! Wink
SillySod



Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 13:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Turning that into a list....

0-2 Rat Ogres - 6 5 2 8 - Big Guy, Wild Animal, Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Prehensile Tail - 140k (strength access)
upped the price by 10k because they're so good in stunty, wouldn't change their price if they had TTM since you'd want to make it bad

0-6 Giant Rats - 6 2 3 7 - Really Stupid, No Hands, Dodge, Stunty
durable linefodder and your blockers, I'd be tempted to give them St3 but keep them expensive (and keep re-rolls expensive), not sure if they need it though. For some reason I want to give them piling on

0-3 Packmasters - 6 2 3 7 - Dodge, Stunty - 60k (agility and passing access)
I kept them pricey because they are essential to the team as well as being excellent players (for stunty). They make really cool throwers (for stunty) but only make decent catchers if you dont mind them dying and lets face it, you will mind them dying on this roster

0-16 Throtlings - 6 1 2 6 - Dodge, Stunty, Two Heads, Regenerate - 20k
Mv7 might make them better but actually movement 6 is quite handy anyway.... movement is their one redeeming feature. I added regeneration to help players out with team survival, after all you dont really want to apoth these things. Their crappy catching ability nicely offsets the packmasters throwing ability

Re-rolls 70k
Apoth - yes
Wizard - no

Notice that its quite a fast list and that it might have some issues with fragility. TTM on the rat ogre to let them throw Throtlings could be fun (give the RO always hungry), I'm not sure if people will want to use this though due to WA and throtling landing incapabilities. It would be fun to have the option although it might cause issues when placed in a fast list like this (even if its really bad). This list definately should have mutations.... those claws might just be an extra "improvement" to the master moulders favourite player and thats before the warpstone works its charm.

_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.

"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced."
SvenS



Joined: Jul 07, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 13:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Do you think the packmasters should keep stunty then?
What cost do you suggest for the rats?

I like the crazed mutation feeling of giving the throtlings regen, but then they might have to go up to 30k at least?

About TTM Im not that adamant about it but as it will undoubtly be some of the worst TTMers around, it might be fun to have for laughs?!
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