PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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A few weeks ago i was asked by Christer to look at running 'A series of Tournaments' in [B].
His question was: Could the majors also be run in [B]?
My answer, after much thought and research, is No.
The problems and issues as i see them:
3 of the majors, The WO, UI and GLT have multiple entry methods, dividing applications by race, that dont seem appropriate to [B]. The advantage might be to encourage more diversity of race choice in [B], but conversely, if [B] Tournaments take only the biggest applicants, there would also be even more reson to specialise in av9 races.
The LC 'Flat Entry' method also seems redundant in a league where any cash you have has been earned in a random enviroment, but is less troublesome.
The FC massive draw style Tourney seems very possible, but would still require large teams, with the issues that entails, and also a method of 'freezing' a team ready to enter, otherwise coches with a team they consider 'ready' would have a dissincentive to play [B] at all until the draw is made, for fear of having aging rolls, or team destroyed.
Also as to prizes: many of you seem to want the same sort of prizes [R] has for its majors, many of you desperately don't.
So, I am not sure directly cloning the majors over to [B] is the answer.
I also looked at the other formats we have:
RRR and Rookie smacks seem redundant, as [B] teams play whatever they get anyway. Also the same issue rears of entering a team only to get it scheduled in a game.
Smack/Scheduled Smack also have difficulties as again the chance of a team going over a weight limit is large, so once again if a team looks 'perfect' for a tourney, wouldnt the coach have to stop playing [B] to ensure it didnt go over the limit.
Tour/Minors suffer from the same problems.
I have had several chats with notable [B] players and other fumbbl 'wise old heads', and read every post in the [B] forum that relates to Tournaments and to be honest there is no concensus i can find on any part of the issue.
One interesting new concept was floated my way: To have a date only for [B] Tournaments, then prior to that date coaches declare their availability and willingness to play in it. On the draw date a TR cap is randomly determined, and we accept the nearest team of any coach that applied. So it the random TR generated in 186, we then accpet the teams from participating coaches that are nearet to, while not exceeding, that number.
I have no idea how much programming need that would generate, and am also aware Christer is likely VERY busy with LRB5 client integration issues, so i doubt we can expect much beyond simple fixes. I don't know.
So, issues i am interested in hearing more on, are sadly somewhat basic:
What Tournaments does [B] need, and how would they work?
We can have prizes like [R] or simple low cash, low FF, single skill, or whatever we want down to a simpel note in profile and nothing else. What prizes would the majority wish for?
Bearing in mind i am not an active [B] coach and have little feel for the Division. Is there someone who would wish to put themselves forward as a better option for running [B] Tourneys?
Looking at the 'biggest [B] teams, via statistics is a little depressing about the biggest [B] teams lack of diversity, but Would 4 'massive draw' basic KO Tournaments a year do the job?
Finally, please bear in mind i am serious here, so...
Please do not expect back slapping, and lavish praise, for every half thought through concept you want to add here. I am after a serious discussion that ends up generating an implementable plan for [B] Tournaments. Any iodeas/thoughts added here should be seen as public property, and we should all feel free to rip them apart/add/change them.
Feel free to repeat ideas from other threads here, on the downside i have likely already read it ,and considered it, and rejected it. But that doesnt mean I am right, nor that we cant solve the problems with it. So the upside is it might help/add and WILL be considered.
This isn't a democracy. Christer will decide who runs [B] Tournaments, and that person will decide what Tournaments they think should be run. If some idea of yours gets 2-3 positive responses, it doesn't mean its going to happen, nor that it is even a good idea.
Any nonsense about 'scrap R tourneys' will be ignored.
Fire away.................. |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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May 27, 2009 - 13:45 |
 
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IMO majors wont cut it for the blackbox environment. The nature of the scheduler means that even av9 teams are tough to build "properly" just because you get diminishingly few games as your TS soars... a situation where you had to ditch all your other teams just so you'd get games with your majors team might occur and that isnt going to improve blackbox.
It might be better to wait until LRB5 is implemented because its generally easier to build a high end team in LRB5. Also the high end teams tend to cap out at roughly the same place so you dont get anomolies like the blood falcons being left with no casual games. I guess what I'm saying is that combining LRB5 with blackbox would solve blackboxes high end saturation issues.
| Quote: | | One interesting new concept was floated my way: To have a date only for [B} Tournaments, then prior to that date coaches declare their availability and willingness to play in it. On the draw date a TR cap is randomly determined, and we accept the nearest team of any coach that applied. So it the random TR generated in 186, we then accpet the teams from participating coaches that are nearet to, while not exceeding, that number. |
This idea definately has promise. It would need quite alot of refining before being put into practice though. |
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Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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It had occured to me to 'just throw some high TR tourneys [B]'s way to shut them up, then look again come LRB5 time'
Maybe thats the right answer. |
_________________
Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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BillBrasky
Joined: Feb 15, 2005
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May 27, 2009 - 13:59 |
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I would like to see a large (32 or 64?) KO tournament capped at 200 TS as it seems difficult for blackbox teams with higher TS to get frequent games, and may well be stagnant.
Perhaps a Gladiator Challenge where teams are thrown into the arena to battle to the end, (the fluff should be devised someone more creative than I).
The winner of the Tourney would receive an award to be bestowed on one player(healing potion, Greaves of Balance (+ag), Cestus of Carnage (Claws), or Helmet of Valor (+av). |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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May 27, 2009 - 14:05 |
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I have always thought, that [B] tourneys should more be about the coaches than the teams. The 'win-first' attitude is for me the core of the box.
So why don`t we let the coaches enter, then at a fixed time, the scheduled coaches meet. Via a chat-command, they activate the scheduler to schedule a match between two of their teams. If the scheduler can make a match with a high enough suitability (Threshold to be determined - but why no 800 points as first guess?), then both coaches play this matchup and the winner advances. If the scheduler cannot make a match, then both coaches can try again at a later time. At each challenge, the number of teams with more than 4 games played are recorded for each coach. If both coaches cannot be matched over the whole time, each coach rolls a d6, adds the sum of the recorded number and the one with the higher result advances.
This encourages having enough teams, so that the scheduler can make a decent choice. |
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Astarael
Joined: Aug 14, 2005
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May 27, 2009 - 14:09 |
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Only idea I can think off the top of my head, so probably been said before...
Flat entry, all TR's, all TS's, if you want in you get in.
Teams are then frozen and paired randomly, your other [B] teams can still get scheduled, but that one can't.
Frozen teams are locked, no changes may be made as per the normal scheduling rules in [B]
After each round there's a period where the team is allowed to make changes to the roster, then is frozen once more. No games can be played during this time with those teams.
Teams are paired randomly and it's a straight KO to the finish where one is left.
In many respects, similar to the current majors  |
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Oh my. |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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May 27, 2009 - 14:13 |
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Rather similar to the orc XFL. |
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On1
Joined: Jul 12, 2004
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May 27, 2009 - 14:14 |
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I would wait till lrb5 is rdy (might take some time yes)
But would be silly to put a lot of effort into this, only to have it fall apart due to new stuff being implemented. I am all in for big tournaments in [B] with nice prizes etc, they would be killed eventually.
Most people set their computer games to easy... Some set them to hardcore... I simply do not understand the easy mode weirdos  |
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Igvy
Joined: Apr 29, 2007
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May 27, 2009 - 14:24 |
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| PurpleChest wrote: | It had occured to me to 'just throw some high TR tourneys [B]'s way to shut them up, then look again come LRB5 time'
Maybe thats the right answer. |
The right idea, but rolled out as testing tourney(s) for [B].
Leave it like that till you have time to refine.
Is there any reason not to do this? |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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May 27, 2009 - 14:27 |
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What exactly do you guys think will change, when LRB5 is implemented in the box?
You will still have the same structural problems that you have now. |
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Archevol
Joined: Dec 14, 2008
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May 27, 2009 - 14:39 |
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Is it possible to have a tourney where teams need to meet the required TR for each round?
For example, 'Rogslothog Temps', a made-up orc team, has a TR of 175 for the first round of a TR175 tournament. They win, going up to TR189.
The team gets activated twice for B before the second round. They win one, draw the other, changing the TR to 192 and then 185 (lost a blitzer, say).
For round two, they will need to trim their TR from 185 to 175 (or else they default, say).
I like this idea because:
a) The tournament idea does not preclude continuing to play the team in B (or B at all).
b) It allows weaker teams to try and strengthen between rounds (should they progress)
c) It challenges tourney-built teams to limit their development during the tournament period.
d) It will throw up more variety between rounds, as coaches will rarely know exactly what they will be facing until the day arrives.
e) It might not be coding hell. |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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May 27, 2009 - 14:51 |
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My own proposal about B tournaments:
-Select a tournament team.
-Divide groups by 20TR ranges.
-Each day, at a fixed hour, check if 16 participants are into your TR group.
-If yes, start the tournament, make the team unavailable for blackboxing.
-The winner get a medal on his team page, 100k, +1FF
Major effectively wouldn't work in Blackbox. A major goes through a teambuilding phase, out of the blackbox scope. |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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May 27, 2009 - 14:51 |
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First off, I do not think the criteria you use for [R] majors would work in [B]. The different approaches in [R] were used to bring more diversity to the Majors, as well as to try and stop people pimping their team out, which is not the same. The approach given to [B] majors should be perhaps some what simpler.
One approach which may work well is the smack enviroment, on a much much larger basis. Where perhaps the majoys could be run at up to 200TR and 150TR (at least at first). People could then trim (or climb) to the required TR ready to enter the major. It would perhaps not have the same draw as the [R] majors, but people would be aware that the path taken to prepare the team was not a chosen one.
The big crux around this whole thing though, is the ability to 'rest' a team, which I think would also help [B] as a whole, and not just on the major tournament scale. If each coach were allowed to have one [B] 'sleeping' at any one point in time, then not anly would it remove some of the frustration with being forced to play the same team alot, but it would also allow people to freeze their [B] team before the major.
As for the prize given out, I think it would need to be something along the standard lines of FF +Prize money, to allow [B]lackbox to remain pure. Especially if the rested option was brought in, as special players would then be able to hide between majors.
I would like to see perhaps two majors initially (with a 3 month gap), perhaps at 200TR and 150TR entry levels and then for everthing to be reviewed at that point.
For all of this to work, the only requirements needed would be to allow each coach to have 1 'sleeping' [B] team at any point.
Finally, I would be willing to put my name forward for running the tournaments, depending of course on the type of tournament that is finally agreed on. I am sure people know me well enough, not only as an active [B] coach, but also someone who spent alot of time and effort, along with Qaz, to bring the Scheduled Smack format back to the fore. |
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xcver
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
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May 27, 2009 - 14:56 |
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Dunno if it has been written as an idea before:
Tournament is entered on a coach basis.
a) Coach needs to have minimum of 3 Blackbox Teams.
b) These teams should lie within certain TS boundaries like 1 being 0>125 and 1 being 126>175 and 1 being 176+
c) To add even more diversity restrictions on the teams could be used, like 1 from Tier1 (dwarves, dark elves...) Tier2 (undead, human...) and Tier3 (Ogre, Halfling...)
For each round scheduler puts all competing coaches against another and determines the matchups for that round this way. Next round with the remaining coaches and so on.
The pro would be a very diverse tournament every round. Con is probably the administrative effort and do-ability
Have not that many [B] games but I think that this would be fun |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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| Posted:
May 27, 2009 - 14:56 |
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| DukeTyrion wrote: | | One approach which may work well is the smack enviroment, on a much much larger basis. Where perhaps the majoys could be run at up to 200TR and 150TR (at least at first). People could then trim (or climb) to the required TR ready to enter the major. It would perhaps not have the same draw as the [R] majors, but people would be aware that the path taken to prepare the team was not a chosen one. |
I so do not get what you mean with this paragraph. Can you explain in detail, how stuff would work? |
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