| Poll |
| Is the diversity really that bad? |
| I don't play in the box but think - NO |
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6% |
[ 9 ] |
| I don't play in the box but think - YES |
|
13% |
[ 20 ] |
| I've had less then 20 box games and think - NO |
|
8% |
[ 12 ] |
| I've had less then 20 box games and think - YES |
|
12% |
[ 18 ] |
| I've had less then 100 box games and think - NO |
|
19% |
[ 28 ] |
| I've had less then 100 box games and think - YES |
|
19% |
[ 28 ] |
| I've had more then 100 box games and think - NO |
|
21% |
[ 31 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 146 |
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odi
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Aug 10, 2009 - 13:47 |
 
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| CircularLogic wrote: | | odi wrote: | who cares about BWR? In the beginning that was just part of C's plan to hurt coaches who just wanted to bash instead of playing to win, if I remember correctly. But these days it's obsolite, so it could even be removed. Though I was very close to making it into the top ten last week, with a BWR of 139. That would have been fun, making it to the top ten with the lousiest BWR. But then I ended up loosing a game or 2.  |
You are mixing up BWR (Blackbox Win Rating) and BBR (Blackbox Bash Rating). |
You're right... I just accidentally switched one for the other... What I meant was who cares about BBR...  |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 10, 2009 - 13:54 |
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| odi wrote: | who cares about BBR? In the beginning that was just part of C's plan to hurt coaches who just wanted to bash instead of playing to win, if I remember correctly. But these days it's obsolite, so it could even be removed. Though I was very close to making it into the top ten last week, with a BBR of 139. That would have been fun, making it to the top ten with the lousiest BBR. But then I ended up loosing a game or 2.
|
I believe I still hold the record for the highest BWR at 178.27, yet at that point I only had AV 7 teams, and when I first hit the top 10 my BBR was under 125.
So, those suggesting that Blackbox suits the bashers more are being a little short sighted. Agile teams seem to be the way forward, that is if BWR is your target.
However, I do think that when the Blackbox Majors come along, it will favour the higher AV sides, such as Orcs, Dwarves, Chaos Dwarves and the like, but that is a different issue. |
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Gran
Joined: Jul 07, 2005
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| Posted:
Aug 10, 2009 - 15:57 |
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I'm sure the Top10 coaches have no problem handling the amount of bashers, and the point I was trying to make wasn't that the basher way was the only one available, or even the ultimately most successful.
I have spec'ed the M.I.B.'s many time (much enjoyment there by the way ) so I know that you can do well with low AV teams (you seem to like it as low as possible...  ). The point I'm trying to make is that I think the majority of coaches will go for bashers, and that I think BWR and BBox-tournaments will add to this trend. I also think this can lead (doesn't have to, I hope not) to stagnation and ultimately people giving up on the division. I also think that it would be more fun to play a more diverse mix of races.
If we look at above-mentioned M.I.B. they have in their 128 matches played Chaos 24 times, Khemri 18, Orc 17 and Dwarf 11. Those four races make up almost 55% of the games, with most games played in the 170-200 interval. A problem for you? No, obviously not. Lacking racial diversity? Yes, clearly. |
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-- (Terry Pratchett, Eric)
Today Is A Good Day For Someone Else To Die!
-- (Terry Pratchett, Feet of Clay) |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 10, 2009 - 16:14 |
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| Gran wrote: | | ... and that I think BWR and BBox-tournaments will add to this trend. |
You might want to look at my tournament suggestion in the other thread, if it ever takes place, it's likely that at least one Major will be less suited to bashers. |
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JHassler
Joined: Jun 15, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 10, 2009 - 16:29 |
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I haven't tried [B] yet, but can I offer one wild and one not-so-wild idea?:
1. How about a division where your initial team is chosen at random so there is a forced mix  (ya, that's the wild one). It can be tracked so people have to play two games with that team before retiring and trying again. (ya, it's wacky, but kinda fun sounding).
2. Let's get to LRB5. The death/SI rate would probably decrease quickly with the newer rules that balance out the game a lot.
-Hass |
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Khudzlin
Joined: May 24, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 10, 2009 - 17:04 |
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death and SI rates would probably increase in LRB5: even though fouling is weaker and claw is useful only against high AV, the apo is significantly weaker and PO is stronger, not to mention all bonuses stack (claw + mb means armour is broken on 7+)
however, deaths and SI's would be much less crippling to teams due to journeymen and the way TV is calculated (unavailable players don't count and neither does gold) |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 10, 2009 - 20:35 |
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| JHassler wrote: | I haven't tried [B] yet, but can I offer one wild and one not-so-wild idea?:
1. How about a division where your initial team is chosen at random so there is a forced mix (ya, that's the wild one). It can be tracked so people have to play two games with that team before retiring and trying again. (ya, it's wacky, but kinda fun sounding).
2. Let's get to LRB5. The death/SI rate would probably decrease quickly with the newer rules that balance out the game a lot.
-Hass |
Don't worry, it's really not bad
By the way, I would like to point out that the popular races in R are simply the same in B. It's jut that they struggle less to find a game.
If I take a competitive R Khemri team, I'm sure the games they played are less diverse than a BBox counter part. |
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Gran
Joined: Jul 07, 2005
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| Posted:
Aug 11, 2009 - 08:29 |
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| JHassler wrote: | | 1. How about a division where your initial team is chosen at random so there is a forced mix (ya, that's the wild one). It can be tracked so people have to play two games with that team before retiring and trying again. (ya, it's wacky, but kinda fun sounding). |
Variations of this have actually been suggested before, during the forming of the BBox-division, for instance as a "team-pool" from which you were assigned a team randomly every time you signed up (i.e. you wouldn't "own" the team you played, just borrow it for one game). People have also suggested that participants should be required to have at least one team of each race.
@sk8bcn: Absolutely, from their vantage point they might have been given greater diversity in BBox. This is probably one of the reasons why so many take the chance to make these teams.
@DukeTyrion: Will do. |
_________________
The trouble is that things *never* get better, they just stay the same, only more so.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Eric)
Today Is A Good Day For Someone Else To Die!
-- (Terry Pratchett, Feet of Clay) |
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treborius
Joined: Apr 05, 2008
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| Posted:
Aug 11, 2009 - 13:43 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: | By the way, I would like to point out that the popular races in R are simply the same in B. It's jut that they struggle less to find a game.
If I take a competitive R Khemri team, I'm sure the games they played are less diverse than a BBox counter part. |
qftw. |
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Snorri
Joined: Jun 07, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 13, 2009 - 16:53 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: | By the way, I would like to point out that the popular races in R are simply the same in B. It's jut that they struggle less to find a game.
If I take a competitive R Khemri team, I'm sure the games they played are less diverse than a BBox counter part. |
Mirroring ranked, because we can't/won't think of anything better or different.
Another point for diversity and variety. |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 14, 2009 - 09:36 |
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| Snorri wrote: | | sk8bcn wrote: | By the way, I would like to point out that the popular races in R are simply the same in B. It's jut that they struggle less to find a game.
If I take a competitive R Khemri team, I'm sure the games they played are less diverse than a BBox counter part. |
Mirroring ranked, because we can't/won't think of anything better or different.
Another point for diversity and variety. |
I'm not sure that I understood this very well. Indeed, I didn't. I don't see why choosing a race is Ranked related.
Indeed, it's the game design itself that induce such choices. Lower orcs AV, cut down the number of BOBs, make mummys str 4, get rid of the tackle skill, all this change the balance of the game and the skill selection.
What would be the game if, instead of dead, your player would get a 1d6 MNG result?
Point is, the designers said BloodBowl isn't supposed to be equilibrated (IMO an excuse cause it's really difficult to do so, so they rather say they did it on purpose). Why would you better take a team A instead on a team B? Because:
>it's more efficient
>they have a cooler design. |
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asharak
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 19, 2009 - 00:35 |
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Ehhh, low Av teams bad for BWR? Really? My low av teams are my highest winners. Maybe that says more about my play than anything else (Can't seem to win with my Chaos EVER but hey) but certainly for the sake of BWR I'd say the fragile teams have plenty going for them. |
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Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life. |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 19, 2009 - 17:33 |
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| asharak wrote: | | Ehhh, low Av teams bad for BWR? Really? My low av teams are my highest winners. Maybe that says more about my play than anything else (Can't seem to win with my Chaos EVER but hey) but certainly for the sake of BWR I'd say the fragile teams have plenty going for them. |
Who are you actually answering to? |
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arw
Joined: Jan 07, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 29, 2009 - 23:03 |
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There are plenty of orcs, chaos and dorf teams. That wasn't the question though.
Is the diversity really that bad?
No, I don't think so. Backbox is rough and rightly so.
Orcs and Dorfs are very good and effective throughout the brackets. Chaos is the specs darling. Deep down in our hearts: Don't we all love them?
Of course there are a lot of those! Just natural.
On top of it BB presents the bill for a picky Ranked division. Was about time.
btw: Is it just me feeling that way or do you agree Ranked has been less picky since BBox started? |
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Fela
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 22, 2009 - 12:57 |
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Sorry about the thread necromancy, but out of personal interest i created a few numbers today and thought I'd share them.
I grouped by TS from 150 to 199 and >199 (so >149 also means <200).
| Code: | | Race | Teams | >199 | Teams | >149 | Games | >199 | Games | >149 |
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| Amazon | 2 | 0,93% | 36 | 3,01% | 77 | 0,84% | 672 | 2,49% |
| Chaos | 30 | 14,02% | 158 | 13,22% | 1625 | 17,64% | 4324 | 16,04% |
| Chaos Dwarf | 18 | 8,41% | 84 | 7,03% | 648 | 7,03% | 1784 | 6,62% |
| Dark Elf | 10 | 4,67% | 84 | 7,03% | 300 | 3,26% | 1744 | 6,47% |
| Dwarf | 36 | 16,82% | 122 | 10,21% | 1367 | 14,84% | 2506 | 9,29% |
| Elf | 1 | 0,47% | 17 | 1,42% | 116 | 1,26% | 342 | 1,27% |
| High Elf | 4 | 1,87% | 42 | 3,51% | 128 | 1,39% | 862 | 3,20% |
| Human | 5 | 2,34% | 43 | 3,60% | 556 | 6,03% | 1173 | 4,35% |
| Khemri | 31 | 14,49% | 126 | 10,54% | 1344 | 14,59% | 2701 | 10,02% |
| Lizardmen | 3 | 1,40% | 34 | 2,85% | 147 | 1,60% | 916 | 3,40% |
| Necromantic | 4 | 1,87% | 43 | 3,60% | 184 | 2,00% | 717 | 2,66% |
| Ogre | 4 | 1,87% | 50 | 4,18% | 117 | 1,27% | 1454 | 5,39% |
| Orc | 51 | 23,83% | 188 | 15,73% | 2109 | 22,89% | 4200 | 15,58% |
| Skaven | 2 | 0,93% | 50 | 4,18% | 58 | 0,63% | 1244 | 4,61% |
| Undead | 6 | 2,80% | 79 | 6,61% | 249 | 2,70% | 1527 | 5,66% |
| Wood Elf | 7 | 3,27% | 39 | 3,26% | 189 | 2,05% | 798 | 2,96% |
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Sorry about the missing data for low TS but pulling the data out of the statistics pages got tedious after a while and since i was originally only interested in >200 data i did not invest time into creating or finding a crawler.
Missing a 'save CSV' button there |
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