Were_M_Eye
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
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 Posted:
Nov 03, 2010 - 22:00 |
 
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| Britnoth wrote: |
block dodge fend sidestep, possibly guard too, and youll probably still be knocked over anyway. Good luck getting a team of those.. and when you do Ill have a team of mp/po/tackle with grab or jugger less TV.
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And you probably lose horribly. |
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propuppetmaster
Joined: Feb 27, 2007
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| Posted:
Nov 03, 2010 - 23:24 |
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| Alibaba wrote: | so... true killer player is player with...
Claw, mb, po, juggernaut, block, tackle and Grab ? |
the only player's who can get all of these are a Storm Vermin, Chaos Ogre, Minotaur, Beast of Nurgle or a CDB.
Maybe an underworld Troll or Chaos Troll??? Need helps with those two though... |
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f_alk
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
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Nov 04, 2010 - 09:22 |
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Actually, any player able to mutate or starting with claw is able to get there. Just throw in enough doubles. |
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Lakrillo
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
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Nov 04, 2010 - 09:29 |
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Thats not right f_alk. Any mutating player starting with one of the skills is able to get there as it is 7 skills and 6 is the maximum a player can get under the new rules. |
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f_alk
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
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Nov 04, 2010 - 11:08 |
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ops ... miscounted  |
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Shraaaag
Joined: Feb 15, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 04, 2010 - 11:19 |
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| f_alk wrote: | | Actually, any player able to mutate or starting with claw is able to get there. Just throw in enough doubles. |
And remember that you can't pick grab when you have frenzy (werewolf and Snow Troll both start with claw, but has frenzy). |
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Carnis
Joined: Feb 03, 2009
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Nov 04, 2010 - 11:58 |
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Personally I'd prefer frenzy over grab on that list, though. Since fend is really rare and getting marked is not so bad, even if you do you can just declare the block as a blitz instead to get to use PO  . |
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asharak
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
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Nov 04, 2010 - 12:28 |
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Eh?
A fend guy will not suffer from PO even if you're blitzing. See page 2 of this thread for details.
I agree though, frenzy > grab most of the time. Just every now and then... |
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Give a man a fire and he will be warm for the rest of the day.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life. |
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f_alk
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 04, 2010 - 12:38 |
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I think they talked about juggernauts doing the blitz. |
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Uncle_Smed
Joined: May 22, 2004
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Nov 04, 2010 - 14:55 |
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The true killer player is that halfling who always rolls POWs and always roll 11 for armour and 10 for injury followed by 61-68 on the injury table, when you've used your apo..
True story. |
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odi
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Nov 04, 2010 - 16:44 |
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I've actually found fend quite usefull with a few line rats, sure they dont live long anyway, but help a lot slowing down a cage. |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 04, 2010 - 20:06 |
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I see quite a few people here making the common mistake of looking at the skill on its own, rather than in comparison with other skills in the game.
Firstly its not as useful as other skills like block, dodge, wrestle, that will help you avoid getting hurt in the first place, or even sidestep that both helps you avoid getting blocked multiple times, and also helps your positioning if you are not knocked over.
That said, on its own, such as on rookie teams it can have a use.
The problem is, and like the rest of lrb5: The counterskills are inherently easier to take advantage of over the skills they counter.
Lets take amazons in lrb4:
A team of 11 dodge is pretty overpowered before you have any tackle. - I've played over 500 games on an amazon team, and I'm the first person to admit this. 
However, as soon as you get a couple tacklers, the situation changes. Just 1 tackler is enough to make all that dodge useless on each blitz action. Clever positioning can mean just 2 or maybe 3 tacklers at most can remove the dodge reroll from any zon trying to dodge away. 
This is why I detest LRB5 and its counterskill nonsense. It takes very few skill picks to render dozens of opposing skill choices obsolete. The new counterskills also either counter multiple opponent skills, have other effective uses, or both, making taking them an obvious pick, even if their counterskill use is not always needed.
If almost every team currenty take some tackle just to deal with dodge, then surely you should take a skill like grab or jugger or wrestle - which unlike tackle, have some important uses even when the opponent has no skills it can counter?
My view is most teams would; therefore, why take a skill that I expect any opponent to already have its counter....?
Conclusion:
To be worth taking in this situation, the skill must be powerful enough to risk being countered quite often though the game. Dodge is this good, fend is not. |
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Carnis
Joined: Feb 03, 2009
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| Posted:
Nov 04, 2010 - 20:27 |
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Tackle has a passive use though, cancels dodge when standing passively next to a dodger. Tackle also affects the blockdice.
Juggernaut does nothing on your oppo's turn, juggernaut has no passive use. Juggernaut only works while blitzing, there's a ton of reasons not to take it and only a few reasons to take it. To help surf, to prevent being turned over while wild animal blitzing, to counter fend/wrestle (stand firm).
While in theory jugs cancels fend & stand firm & wrestle in practice you rarely see it taken by any players except minos/rat ogres who didnt luck out & get block. Even these said minos/rat ogres frequently get to Block instead of blitz, when juggernaut again does nothing. So I really don't think juggernaut is a reason not to take fend.
Fend is a passive use skill, which works vs frenzy, followups & piling on. Jugs is an active use skill which cancels wrestle, fend, stand firm and makes it easier to surf. I know I prefer the passive use skill if given the option (AFTER possible block/dodge/wrestle ofc).
Also the limit to 6 skills (in practice, to 5 skills - most players die between 76 & 176) & the massive amount of available more general blocking skills (Block, Guard, MB, Tackle, Claw, Piling on, Stand Firm, Wrestle, Grab) makes jugs a very luxury pick indeed.
I think if grab&jugs were somehow combined into a single skill it'd be a bit overpowered, but the current iterations are just barely worth picking (on some, but not all positions).
There's also the fact that Fend is G, dodge is A & jugs is S. Known fact that the best A & S skills are better than the best G skills.. Is it likely people will mass out on juggernaut then? I think not.
Given how powerful dodge is, I think it's very likely you will face tackle, but dodge is still good enough to take. Given how fend is NOT as powerful as dodge it's also less likely to get specifically countered. |
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On1
Joined: Jul 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 04, 2010 - 20:30 |
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Fend is good in so many situations, counter or no counter. |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 05, 2010 - 01:14 |
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| Carnis wrote: | | Tackle has a passive use though, cancels dodge when standing passively next to a dodger. Tackle also affects the blockdice. |
Did not read any further, as you either a) did not even bother reading my post or b) failed reading comprehension at school. |
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