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Palorrin



Joined: Sep 23, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 29, 2012 - 16:25 Reply with quote Back to top

I know that this is the absolute worst time to do this, but the idea popped in my head and wouldn't go away. Please leave me suggestions, I'll probably need it.


There is no way to be certain when these creatures first appeared. However, where ever bloodletters survive long enough and spill enough blood, splotches inevitably form. Splotches (and their evolutionary successors) usually follow the bloodletters around like vicious pets, but sometimes they will roam in packs without the direction of the bloodletters, seeking to spill the blood of ever more victims.


Splotches The earliest and most basic form of the curse, the splotches are literally blobs of blood given life and form. With hardened spikes of dried blood for fingers, these vicious monsters seek the blood of all other living things. Either to feed themselves... or to spawn more of their ilk.

Clots An evolved splotch, the clots have somehow survived long enough to build up layer upon layer of blood on their hands, leaving them sticky enough to be useful ball carriers. Despite this, their craving for blood remains undiminished.

Hemophage The final evolutionary state of the splotches, should the clots survive long enough and gather enough blood. Hemophages' outer surface has dried, leaving them stronger, but even more vicious. Their hunger is even more intense and the furor had driven them to new heights of skill.

Bloodletter Bloodletters are the foundation and source of the curse. Should one of Khorne's bloodletters survive long enough eventually they will create splotches to assist them in spilling even more blood. Some theorize that bloodletters may be the final evolutionary step of the hemophage, but so far there is no evidence to support this.


0-16 Splotch 5/2/2/6 Claw, Infect, Regeneration, Right Stuff, Stunty (A/GSPM) 35 K
0-2 Clot 6/2/2/6 Infect, Regeneration, Right Stuff, Side Step, Stunty, Sure Hands (A/GSPM) 60 K
0-4 Hemophage 5/3/2/7 Frenzy, Infect, Regeneration, Stunty, Wild Animal (G/ASPM) 90 K
0-1 Bloodletter 5/4/2/8 Claw, Frenzy, Horns, Infect, Regeneration, Thick Skull, Throw Team-Mate, Wild Animal (S/GAPM) 120 K

Re-rolls: 70 K
Apothacary: no

Star players: Mincemeat Mad Butcher, Blarney Bill Bastidge, Logan, Odster the Evil One, Shadow, Thundershout Gristlegnasher

Edit #1 Changed clot MV from 6 to 7, changed hemophage MV from 5 to 7, changed minotaur price from 150K to 120K.

Edit #2 Added side step skill to splotches and clots

Edit #3 Added regeneration to all players, increased splotch cost from 30K to 40K, decreased hemophage cost from 100K to 90K, replaced minotaur (0-1 Minotaur 5/5/2/8 Always Hungry, Frenzy, Horns, Loner, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Throw Team-Mate, Wild Animal (S/GAPM) 120 K) with bloodletter, changed team fluff.

Edit #4 Changed clot MV from 7 to 6, changed hemophage MV from 7 to 5, added Odster the Evil One, Shadow, and Thundershout Gristlegnasher to star player list, removed sidestep from splotches.

Edit #5 Decreased splotch price from 40k down to 35k.


Last edited by Palorrin on Mar 17, 2013 - 08:14; edited 6 times in total
Sigmar1



Joined: Aug 13, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 31, 2012 - 08:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Ok, 45 people (as of this response) have read your post without responding. I initially discarded your post out of hand, but have since given your idea some serious thought as, having proposed a couple of team ideas myself, think any REAL effort at a new team (which I think this was) deserves at least some feedback.

My first thought was: are you kidding me? FOUR ST3 Frenzy G access players AND a Mino? And the rest ST2? WAY overpowered. On my reread of the team I've noticed your demonically based team is AG2 and has neither dodge nor regen. Those are some pretty serious handicaps in the Leeg. So here are my thoughts:

The Splotches seem ok to me. Lots of linos with Claw isn't a huge issue as most stunty players are AV7 or less anyway. And giving some high AV teams (gnomes / slaves etc.) something to worry about is all good in my book. The Infect ability also fits your fluff nicely. (The fluff is a bit out there, but this is fantasy so what the hell.) AV6 without dodge or regen to start will ensure lots of turnover with your linos.

Likewise, the Clots seem very reasonable, and with their Sure Hands fill a necessary gap in the team's ball-handling given everyone is AG2. Losing these players will hurt as much as losing Putrifiers from the Nurgling team, but isn't overcomeable (not sure that's a real word lol).

It's the Hemophages + Mino that are causing me concern. That's a lot of power even with WA on the Hemos. I think drop the Mino entirely and you've got a powerful team. With 16 spps those ST3 block/tackle Hemos will likely decimate most opposing LOS. Of course, your linos will be getting splatted like crazy. On the other hand, I recogize the Hemos weaknesses...no dodge, still AG2 stunty, and AV7. The only other team with 4 G access players and a big guy are the Strigs, and your team feels vastly better with the 4 ST3 players. At bare minimum dump the Mino or drop the Hemophages (love the player names btw) to ST2.

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zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 31, 2012 - 12:37 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't see the hemophages + mino packing so much power. Against dodgy (a rarity in stuny Wink) teams you'll have 2 of them doing nothing at all every turn. And yet they are av7 without defensive skills that will probably get isolated due to failed WA and easily taken down.

Actually 100k for hemophages seems way too much. 70k for them and 50k for the clots seem more reasonable.

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ErobererZim



Joined: Dec 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 31, 2012 - 13:42 Reply with quote Back to top

When u ask me this Team is to Weak, your Linos splattert so fast away without dodge, I must say damnd I will play against this with my Squigs, MYAM MYAM MYAM MYAM :O. the Mass STR4 MB Dudes will be have so much fun to eat this Stuff. 1Dice Result more to get them Down Very Happy.
Palorrin



Joined: Sep 23, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 31, 2012 - 15:08 Reply with quote Back to top

The strength of the hemophages... I gave that a lot of consideration. I expect that the hemophages and minotaur will quickly become the only players standing, especially if their opponents are receiving. Many coaches would be willing to risk a 1D block against a splotch or clot... odds are good that they'll come out ahead. Additionally, the low AG means that the hemophages can be quickly isolated as well, either by leaving them alone or locking them against an elusive or strong opponent. Hemophages vs. big guys would likely result in an injured hemophage for example. While in time the hemophages can become deadly, they are still very vulnerable, especially if outnumbered.

Prices... I know that, in some ways, these players are expensive for their skills and stats. However, if you consider how rare some of these starting abilities are amongst stunty, you might be able to see why my prices are they way they are. Sure hands is incredibly valuable (especially with AG2) and frenzy combined with +1 ST is potentially devastating. Also, when starting the team it is possible to start with every positional (7), 4 linos, and 3 RR's. It should make people think about their purchases...

Weakness - every stunty team has (or should have) a team(s) that are a counter to them; a team that is a challenge. I believe that yes, there are teams that will give my design lots of trouble. But I think that this team could become a challenge in a different manner than we've seen before in stunty, and conversely has a weakness that has not been used before.

Thank you for your comments, I'm looking forward to more!
zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 31, 2012 - 15:33 Reply with quote Back to top

The more wild animals you have, the worse this negatrait becomes. I feel you put too much fate in these fellas and their destruction potential. A single one of them could be worth 80k at most. 4 of them at once (+mino) make for a totally inoperative team.

They may have an interesting starting skill (when used wisely) and good skill access, but they still have 2 negatraits, and are very vulnerable, for low armor, stunty and inability to escape bigger fish due to AG2 and no dodge. And stunty is crowded with bigger fish.

Also your linos are already expensive compared to similar linos. Claw is mostly useless and the lack of dodge hits hard. 30k is fine, although it should probably be 25k. So making up this by making cheaper positionals is the common practice.

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 31, 2012 - 17:28 Reply with quote Back to top

I agree with Zakatan; playing a Chaos Halfling team, where I have 2 wild animals (and a Mighty Blow/Block/Tackle head carver), I regularly find that my minotaurs eat whatever they started near and then stand around and roar a lot, since my head carver is a FAR more reliable blitzer than they are. Having 5 wild animals is going to result in tons of them standing around; and you have no other blitzers on your team, so you're going to lose key blitzes with astounding regularity even on a 2+ wild animal check. The Hemophages, while being S3, G access, and starting with frenzy, have very little ability to develop; sure they can get block and tackle, but they can't get diving tackle, or tentacles, or anything else to keep their opponent's near them. So everyone is just going to dodge away from them. Combined with the above, they are actually going to skill fairly slowly (unless you score with them), and without MB, they're never going to be true killers.

Finally: This team suffers from 'omg I can't move' syndrome. Move 5, even with a throw teammate (that has a 50% fail rate + always hungry + no starting strong arm + terrible agility on the person they are throwing) means they'll get outmaneuvered very easily even by MA 6 people. Sure the clots are MA 6 (which is a priceless advantage), but without starting dodge, those clots are dead. Dead dead dead. Combine with 5 wild animals, and suddenly your whole team can be outmaneuvered worse than dwarves against wood elves.

Suggestions:
Give Clots Dodge to start (as well as everything else).
Give Hemophages Tentacles to start.

Now you're maneuverable players have some survivability, your non big guy hitters have some way to actually keep something close enough to hit (although with only S3 it's not so reliable as to be crazy powerful), and the prices make more sense.

Finally as a note:
In Stunty Leeg, 11 players is suicide. A roster built around starting with 11 players, like you suggested, is a bad idea; I generally wouldn't start with a roster with less than 12, preferably 13 players. With that in mind, the prices (without my changes) do seem a little much, although not a lot. If you don't change anything skill-wise, I would drop the Hemophages to 80k.

Edit: Oh yeah, big guys are also generally not that expensive in Stunty Leeg. I would drop the minotaur down to 120, especially given all the other wild animals on the team.
Palorrin



Joined: Sep 23, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 31, 2012 - 18:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Hemophage "useful" standard skill selections: Block, Tackle, Pro, Shadowing, Strip Ball, Sure Hands, Pass Block (when implemented). While some of these are much more useful than others, shadowing would allow them to harass dodging stunties.

"Can't move syndrome" - Speed and movement was one of my concerns in creating this team. I didn't want to make it too easy to get about or gang up, especially with all the extra strength on the team. That being said, especially given the "useful skills" discussion I think I may increase the speed of several of my critters.

Starting Roster - I know that starting with 11 players is suicide... I was making a point that people would probably have to pick and choose exactly how to spend their money. Such as replacing a hemophage with either 3 splotches (and +10K) or a splotch and an extra reroll. Although the suggestion about the big guy is a good one...

See Edit #1
zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 31, 2012 - 18:23 Reply with quote Back to top

hm I don't think they pack so much strenght, specially considering they are a bash team (they are obviously not an agility team). I'm afraid they'll have the same problem as khemris in lrb6. They used to be a low agility team that had so much punch. Now they don't have neither punch or agility.

I mean, every team needs something to be good at.

On the other hand, for desing purposes, it'd be nice to have a table with the average strenght of the "starting 11" of every roster.

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cameronhawkins



Joined: Aug 19, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 31, 2012 - 19:45 Reply with quote Back to top

I like the idea of the team, but....

5226 Stunty without Dodge is simply unplayably bad, basically matter what they cost.

Right now, this is a weak, weak team. Zakatan's right about WA. They're gonna get isolated, knocked down, and fouled off the pitch in the first few turns, on offence or defence.

I would give ALL the stunty players dodge, and knock up all their costs by 10k. Infect somewhat mitigates the recurring cost of replacing overpriced linos, so that shouldn't be too much of an option. (give it to Minotaur too).

Also, I'm not quite sure what your thinking is about the Right Stuff/TTM. With Ag2, it simply isn't an option. End of story. It's less than a 10% chance, not taking distance/scatter into account, or dodging (!) past a screen. Even if it's a last ditch desperation move for the game-tying/winning play, if I can still make moves with a minotaur and my ball carrier, I think I'd be more likely farm SPP by Blitzing a Stunty and attempting a Pass. At least, if those go awry, my positionals don't end up in something's stomach, or splattered onto the field.

There's a team here somewhere, though!
Palorrin



Joined: Sep 23, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 01, 2012 - 02:06 Reply with quote Back to top

I hear all the comments suggesting dodge... but that really removes one of the elements of the team (no dodge) and changes the linos to less agile halflings with claw, instead of something unique. That being said I can see how you would feel that there is a need for something to provide a little more survivability.

As to the usefulness of right stuff/TTM... who says it has to have a successful landing? Or with a ball carrier? Throwing a slow player either directly at another player (possibly causing a casualty!) or even near enough to get up and support a block has use.

See Edit #2
Sigmar1



Joined: Aug 13, 2008

Post   Posted: Sep 01, 2012 - 03:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Rather than dodge or ss, you should put blanket regen on all the players except the mino. It'll keep the team around longer and fits your fluff of reanimated blood (essentially blood demons). And really, how the heck is an apo going to treat an injured pile of possessed blood?

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cameronhawkins



Joined: Aug 19, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 01, 2012 - 05:43 Reply with quote Back to top

For what it's worth, Stunty Leeg Minotaurs already have Regen, so as long as he's going to create a new big guy, he should make one which meshes better with the team, and give it Really Stupid.
Sigmar1



Joined: Aug 13, 2008

Post   Posted: Sep 01, 2012 - 08:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Just because the cfling minos have regen doesn't mean any others should. And RS instead of WA doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

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xnoelx



Joined: Jun 05, 2012

Post   Posted: Sep 01, 2012 - 09:02 Reply with quote Back to top

I'll leave the design side of things to those more experienced, but fluff-wise, the obvious big guy for this team would be a Bloodletter, surely? Seems like it'd tie in pretty well. Although that'd mean a fairly different set of skills than the mino has. & probably ST4 rather than 5. & possibly Bloodlust for a negatrait, although I'm less sure about that.

Mino just doesn't really fit the theme, for me. Seems like they'd just eat the rest of the team, given their established taste for it, with the various versions of the bloodgreed special rule over the years.

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