| Poll |
| Which should be the 3rd skill? |
| Guard |
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5% |
[ 4 ] |
| Tackle |
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54% |
[ 38 ] |
| Dodge |
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8% |
[ 6 ] |
| Something Else |
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31% |
[ 22 ] |
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| Total Votes : 70 |
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RC
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
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 Posted:
Apr 15, 2014 - 11:08 |
 
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It cancels wrestle, fend and SF. Lots of players pick wrestle and then fend on players like normal skill only linos. This completely makes then punching bags on blitzes for the jugger, mb, po player. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2014 - 11:33 |
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If your POMBer is wasting your blitz hitting 2 skill linos you're doing something wrong or have already won. |
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PaddyMick
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2014 - 11:50 |
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Right. When you say it 'cancels' wrestle, it turns the both down intoa push back, right?
Could someone subtly point me in the direction of a rulebook now that GW have taken theirs down?  |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2014 - 11:53 |
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| PaddyMick wrote: | Right. When you say it 'cancels' wrestle, it turns the both down intoa push back, right?
Could someone subtly point me in the direction of a rulebook now that GW have taken theirs down? |
no not right. That is just one option, if you say no to turning both down in to push back the opposition is then not allowed to use Wrestle on the both down result.
Also the rule book is currently downloadable from the NAF web site. Just check on TFF as well there is a thread about the rules being taken down with lots of links on. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2014 - 12:02 |
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Yeah TFF also has a version with the fluff and pics included. |
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Chainsaw
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2014 - 12:27 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | If your POMBer is wasting your blitz hitting 2 skill linos you're doing something wrong or have already won. |
Or they are the wall in front of the better players?
Plus plenty of sackers have wrestle. Plenty of ball carriers / flesh walls have fend. Juggernaut makes them all much more susceptible.
It also negates stand firm so gives you a way to shift any annoying otherwise immovable players as well as making blitzing them less hazardous (both downs still pushes them back so you can move away without making a dodge).
Juggernaut is a really good skill to have. |
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Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2014 - 13:49 |
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+1
I always want one Juggernaut (usually on a slayer) on my dwarf teams (in addition to the deathroller, if I have one). The earlier, the better (other teams probably can't afford that, but for dwarves with all their skills I very much like it). It doesn't force me to use the player to blitz (this would be stupid in many situations), but it can be a game-saving skill in many situations like outlined by Chainsaw. It's great for chain-pushing as well, if you need to open it with a (possible even one-die) blitz.
It's also very good on big guys you frequently blitz with (most likely minos on low TV teams, I guess, or really crazy players). |
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Hitonagashi
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2014 - 14:47 |
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| Garion wrote: | | Grod wrote: | | I thought juggernaut was poor, not realising it cancels wrestle. Actually it might be full of win. Id stll want it paired up with frenzeh tho. |
It is a good skill and many people miss that, however it is still only a 5th or 6th skill imo. |
This.
I liked RandomOracle's killer builds - one beastman with killstack + (block/tackle) + frenzy at legend, and the second beastman with block/tackle + juggernaut at legend. I think on a killer player without M access, it's a decent shout for a 4th-5th skill.
It's not as good a skill as Frenzy or Tackle, or the killstack, but it's certainly not a bad skill, and it can be very useful under the right circumstances |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2014 - 15:21 |
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Juggernaut is the kind of skill you pick when running out of options.
That's why it is good for Slayers who start with a bunch of skills including Frenzy which works well with Juggs.
It is good for big guys because they can't get Block or other normal skills. Again better for a Mino because of the Frenzy.
But for 30TV on a guy who gets Dodge and Jump Up on normal rolls, just no. |
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DeZigma
Joined: Aug 21, 2011
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2014 - 15:52 |
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Juggernaut is for sure a great skill, but for a POMBer? Not sure, sire!
Finally u turn a BD to push, but you have to "lay" him/her down to get use of PO!
So i vote for TACKEL.
and btw. in a HE team i would prefer to build a POMB-Catcher, because of the reach. |
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Hitonagashi
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2014 - 16:03 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | Juggernaut is the kind of skill you pick when running out of options.
That's why it is good for Slayers who start with a bunch of skills including Frenzy which works well with Juggs.
It is good for big guys because they can't get Block or other normal skills. Again better for a Mino because of the Frenzy.
But for 30TV on a guy who gets Dodge and Jump Up on normal rolls, just no. |
Hmm, I prefer it to Jump Up. You are an elf team, not a chaos team!
Against a decent opponent, you'll get Guardlocked, and you won't be able to stand up to block. To me, the situations where you can use JU are way too close to the situations where you are men up (and being elves, already won the game). I'm not a big fan of skills that come into their own only when you've already won the game.
EDIT - I do however, agree with your overall post. It's probably not worth 30k TV when you have Dodge/Tackle/Dauntless/Frenzy as 20k options. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2014 - 16:21 |
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Human Blitzer, Track 1: Mighty Blow, Tackle, Piling On. After that, there's a cliff, and all the remaining skills are in the useful/fun category. Let me tell you, if I have a TPOMB Human Blitzer and I roll doubles, I'm taking Jump Up and not looking back, and he's getting Pro at Super-Star… unless he doubles again. As an elf, that means just ignore the doubles. |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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| Posted:
Apr 16, 2014 - 08:00 |
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You know, I read these threads all the time where people talk about how great juggernaut is, and I gotta say I almost never see it except on the odd orc blitzer. Someone even tried to convince me to take it over mighty blow on a wardancer once. Look, I'm sure this is a nice skill on G/S players, but it's a very rare elf that is going to want it over all the other great options.
Juggernaut is theorybowl at it's worst... sure it's useful, but you only get 5-6 skills per player. Mighty Blow, Guard, Sidestep, Tackle, Dodge, Piling on... there's 6 skills that are probably better. Then there's Frenzy, Grab, Jump Up, Diving Tackle, Strip Ball, Dauntless, Leap, and Fend that are all in that second tier with Juggernaut that you could also choose from.
There's 14 choices right there that are reasonable to put on an elf blitzer. Why juggernaut? I can make just as good a case for most of the rest, and most of the people suggesting it don't take it themselves. Why? Because there's almost always something better unless you're a minotaur or rat ogre. |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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| Posted:
Apr 16, 2014 - 08:28 |
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To me, jugger witches are great to have, provided you already have a (po)mb player to damage-blitz with (as having one is paramount). I love to get jugger on surfing specialists. There's only so much you can do with against AV9 without claw, and being able to get a player out without having to break armor really helps there.
Jugger without/before frenzy, but with pomb, is also good but not fantastic, for the reasons stated before. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Apr 16, 2014 - 08:34 |
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In the shoes of rather I would rather have taken dauntless and pro instead of side step and leap. A witch with dauntless, pro, and juggernaut is the real pain in the ass of those pesky BO's. |
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