Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
|
  Posted:
May 14, 2014 - 10:20 |
 
|
I recently played with Goblins again on fumbbl after reading Kam's Blog.
Most of the games I played with them were good fun. But the more skills and FF I got the less fun they were as I increasingly found my self playing more and more unfair match ups, and I ended up retiring them because I basically felt that the future held nothing good for them other than increasingly difficult match ups.
For me the problem with Goblins is Fan Factor is a waste of TV so you don't want that going up at all (Frankentein is right, FF should not count towards TV, but with no rule changes in the future nothing we can do here). Skills - you do not actually want any agility skills on your goblins at all really they are all just a huge waste of TV. On doubles some DP is nice. Blodge is nice and if you can get a stat freak Ag5 blodge goblin then yes that would be good. But while you are waiting for these miracles to happen you're lumbered with terrible side step or Diving tackle Goblins that fall horribly short of their Tv. yes you can fire them, but its not that simple with goblins, they are more expensive than halflings so you don't always have the money to replace them, meaning you have to field these bad players.
Chainsaw - you don't want any skills on ever.
Ball and chain - MB and Grab plus block are good, any more is a waste really.
Bombardier can't even fit in to the line up because of auto sending offs (another rubbish rule change). If you take all 3 secret weapons and have a full bench losing 3 players automatically on top of the cas you will definitely suffer then you will always find your self unable to field a decent team for the 2nd drive.
Trolls are sadly utter crap, they should not have loner, that was a really stupid move by the BBRC. As such they are pretty unreliable at doing anything other than standing there. So what skills do they want, Guard, break tackle, blodge and then stand firm. Which is asking alot really.
The other problem is with st5 any teams above a TV of 1200 should have enough guard and or Strength in their team to make dealing with trolls really really easy.
So how are goblins most effective... IMO they are best if you just take -
2trolls
Pogo
Chainsaw
Fanatic
9 Goblins
3 re-rolls
1 apo
then stop, don't play with them, enter Black Cup for Blackbox teams, and the Fumbbl cup for Ranked or Blackbox teams.
Once in you will be playing much higher TV teams, then you can induce -
3 Bribes
Ripper (this guy is ridiculously good value)
Morg if you can afford him
Nobbla if you can't afford morg
Wizard
Babes
Then you have your best team by far, Foul with your chainsaw every turn or protect your ball carrier with it, occasionally blitz with the other if your opponent is nice enough to give ripper and morg free blocks. And with a bit of luck you will delete teams 
This team did exactly that and had a pretty amazing run in the Black Cup - https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&showmatches=1&team_id=703862
Check out their matches. Sure it relies on a fair bit of luck, but for me its still the way to go.
Anyway, I guess my point is this - Is there any point in playing Goblins when there is nothing worth building? Is this just a huge flaw in the rule set that a rookie team is better than anything you can hope to build with them?
Yes they are fun, but they are already a bit crap and then they get worse the more games you play with them. It a shame really. |
_________________
 |
|
JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
|
| Posted:
May 14, 2014 - 11:12 |
|
Yeah they really suck. I used that team but with a reserve instead of apo when I played in the 145 club.
Apo sucks a bit you do need only 14 mens for the stars. |
_________________
Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby!
Last edited by JimmyFantastic on %b %14, %2014 - %11:%May; edited 1 time in total |
|
Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
|
| Posted:
May 14, 2014 - 11:14 |
|
| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | Yeah they really suck. I used that team but with a reserve instead of apo. |
the problem with that is it leaves you room to only take 1 star player, but dropping the apo is another option for more inducement money. |
_________________
|
|
cdassak
Joined: Oct 23, 2013
|
| Posted:
May 14, 2014 - 11:19 |
|
Not a gobbo expert but still my most played race in FUMBBL.
Your analysis is a bit cynical but more or less true 
I only disagree with the starting lineup, you should include the bomber if you are playing them in a tournament because it’s almost certain to get 3 bribes and a full squad.
So as a 16th player better to have the bomber than a normal gobo.
For me the ideal TV difference for a squad of 14 is 360k (3 bribes, Nobbla and Fungus).
So playing gobbos you’ll certainly have your fun, get some nice underdog wins, make some memorable plays (one turn TTM, pogo leaping TDs, TTM bombs on cages), get your chainsaw and boots bloody, achieve some surgical bombing hits, cause all kinds of mayhem (even destroy some cages) with your fanatic but at the end of the day you’ll loose more games and in many of those it will seem a lost cause from as early as turn1. |
|
|
xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
|
| Posted:
May 14, 2014 - 11:25 |
|
I've only played Gobs in a league, but yeah, unarguably many of your points are valid. But teams like this suggest they aren't quite as lost a cause as all that. |
_________________
 Nerf Ball 2014 |
|
Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
|
| Posted:
May 14, 2014 - 11:32 |
|
Oh I'm sure I could get a similar win percentage too if I put mind to it. In my recent attempt I was 5/2/1 and the loss only came against Chaos Dwarves and it could have been different but I got one of the worst dice rapes ever. So yeah they can win, my point is just the team gets worse as it progresses really in Tv match maker environments.
| cdassak wrote: |
I only disagree with the starting lineup, you should include the bomber if you are playing them in a tournament because it’s almost certain to get 3 bribes and a full squad.
So as a 16th player better to have the bomber than a normal gobo.
For me the ideal TV difference for a squad of 14 is 360k (3 bribes, Nobbla and Fungus).
So playing gobbos you’ll certainly have your fun, get some nice underdog wins, make some memorable plays |
I disagree, the Bombardier is totally unreliable and I would want my 3 bribes to keep the chainsaw or fanatic on the pitch, just 1 of them, the other 1 or 2 remaining bribes would just be for fouling. 3 secret weapons is just too big a risk, especially when one of them is really terrible.
Also I would always want Ripper as my first inducement, he is amazing for his cost. He makes TTM more reliable and he is st6 with no really stupid. |
_________________
|
|
xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
|
| Posted:
May 14, 2014 - 11:39 |
|
My point wasn't just the win percentage, but that they've done it while getting pretty high in TV. But as I say, no real disagreement here, just a slight mitigation. |
_________________
Nerf Ball 2014 |
|
PaddyMick
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
|
| Posted:
May 14, 2014 - 11:40 |
|
Chainsaw could be great with blodge SS or DP or +st or +ma
I had a Block Grab MB ball and chain which was awesome, but imagine if he had dodge, sprint and sure feet? How incredibly awesome would that be?
Get a bomber and try and get HMP.
Piling On on trolls to max out damage when you have to, and there are a couple of situations early in the game when you have to - either when your opponent is stalling and trying to get your numbers down so weapons are only on for one turn, or when you are receiving and have fielded all weapons and are going all out for cas.
But yeah agree in general that higher TV is harder (if not less fun). |
|
|
cdassak
Joined: Oct 23, 2013
|
| Posted:
May 14, 2014 - 11:43 |
|
Including the Bombardier is one thing, using the bribe on him is another. Plus he is your designated fouler if bombing is out of the question.
Anyway, probably a bit biased about star player selection because I love going into games with a full arsenal  |
_________________
 |
|
mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
|
Here's my strategy, which is more theory than practiced but I think it's pretty good.
Play with just the 'saw, trolls and goblins. The other options are expensive and/or unreliable. They are fun, but if you're trying to play them competitively (which I assume this is about) then I'd ignore them. My roster is: 2 Trolls, Saw, 11 Goblins. It also makes you less vulnerable and gives you a deeper bench.
I like to get one skill on the saw so he can get Dodge. Makes him a little more survivable but also more maneuverable. The trolls both take Break Tackle as first skill. Guard is great on Underworld or Pact or Orcs, but on Goblins who are they going to be Guarding for? Their maneuverability is important to any Goblin drive. Block and Pro are the obvious doubles. Goblins take DP every time they roll a double. Try and never let more than a couple get SS/DT (though one or 2 is useful). They often find themselves in harm's way so should keep their numbers low naturally. Finding a +AG goblin is key as he becomes your baller.
In game, try a very fluid rolling cage. It's easy to trip up when over-dodging, but as long as you make the important moves first it doesn't matter. The saw blitzes every turn, either taking out random stragglers from safety, or risking him to take out a TPOMBer or something.
I rarely end a turn without every player having activated (barring turnovers). Once your key moves are done keep dodging to improve your position until somebody falls over!
Ps. You should listen to me, I'm a Goblin Legend, which is weird as I've only played 8 games and have a 50% record |
_________________
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude
Mr. J's LRB7 / Forum |
|
Wolbum
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
|
| Posted:
May 14, 2014 - 11:52 |
|
If the Goblin team you were referring to was the Mighty Mushroom, they seemed to be doing fine up until they ran into some Chaos Dwarfs. But that is bad news even for Halflings.
But to the main point of the OP - yes I do think there is a great reason to use Goblins, but not in the way the roster was redesigned. If you use them like Halflings who have non loner Big Guys, yes you are setting yourself up to fail. They are the "humans" of the stunty teams, right in between Halflings and Ogres.
That said, they're high risk and high reward and I can only guess your results with the Trolls was a bit poor, but I find them the best Big Guys in the game to be honest, you just need to use them with certain caution. For example, setting up 3d blocks for the opening offense or at least preparing in advance in case of failure.
Similarly unlike the Halflings (who rely on the chef) and the Ogres (who have snotlings), the Goblins I find do not rely so heavily on inducements. Quite the opposite, of the three stunty teams I find they can actually fair the best without inducements vs evenly TV'd teams. But that is probably to do with the fact I only use one weapon.
What I personally use is:
12 Goblins
2 Trolls
1 Looney
3 RR
1 Apothecary
Obviously you can pop a pogoer in there but that's just for me . I pretty much write up the reasoning behind this line up in the HELP section for Goblin rosters but one of the key issues with Goblins is, funnily enough, their wide variation of Secret weapons.
But when you want to try to get some element of consistency (if you could call it that), having even just the chainsaw and fanatic is just asking for trouble. Especially when you're essentially losing players without a single dice being rolled, they're just thrown out. You want to have as many players in reserve as possible and able to neatly foul and hopefully outnumber your opponents.
As the TV gets higher, you should be relying more and more on Diving Tackle (which you should get en masse) and your Trolls with Guard and Break Tackle should be able to equalize some of the rougher situations you find yourself in. And again this is why you only use the looney. You're gonna need those extra bodies when the MB and block start coming down and having assurance of a bench is invaluable not to mention the Looney can only damage himself if things go bad. As well with just one weapon, you don't have to use 150k on bribes, one bribe would be enough and you can spend the rest on something to help the team as a whole, rather than just one specialized set of positionals.
The main reasoning you play Goblins however is the same as the other stunties : A challenge. The point of course in continuing a Goblin team is to continue to find ways to be a complete annoyance to other teams who may be less prepared for a coach who has a few tricks up his sleeve. Heck just look at Stick Steve the star Pogoer in Ranked. They're far from a lost cause me finks and my fellas have been having a pretty reasonable time since I got back. I love the green gits and I think FUMBBL would be a much happer, jollier place if we saw more Goblin coaches around! |
Last edited by Wolbum on %b %14, %2014 - %12:%May; edited 3 times in total |
|
Burnalot
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
May 14, 2014 - 12:00 |
|
| xnoelx wrote: | | I've only played Gobs in a league, but yeah, unarguably many of your points are valid. But teams like this suggest they aren't quite as lost a cause as all that. |
Very kind of you to mention my team, but they are from 2003, and got recently resurrected thanks to the Kickstarter thing. Back in those days trolls had G access and PO added strenght to the armour roll(so was beyond overpowered).
Right now the main problem with goblins is that troll are loners(why, if the fling trees are not?). Auto sendoffs and the fact that there is no really good skills to pick with regular gobbos. The bug that makes the client freeze on a not rerolled HMP bomb(maybe for regular failed bombs too, don't know about that) makes it even worse.
Burn |
_________________
If Jah is by my side, how can I be afraid? |
|
mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
|
Haha, there you go. Wolbum is the practical to my theory |
_________________
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude
Mr. J's LRB7 / Forum |
|
xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
|
| Posted:
May 14, 2014 - 12:07 |
|
Ah, I did check to make sure they were a current team, but not far enough back. Ah well, I stand by my point. Even I can get the occasional win with gobs, so I really don't think they are all that bad. Bad, yes, just not that bad. |
_________________
Nerf Ball 2014 |
|
jamesfarrell129
Joined: Dec 23, 2009
|
| Posted:
May 14, 2014 - 12:13 |
|
Honestly, you're playing goblins wrong.
They are about fun; sure, you can try to win games with them (because winning is fun!), but your first aim should be to have a giggle.
So with that in mind... take all weapons. If you can, induce more.
You say you don't want skills on the 'saw? Well that's lucky, because he won't get many. Dodge is good, side-step is good (stops people from pushing him away). Leap could be worth it for a giggle (I may be taking that to NAFC this weekend).
The bomber: take him, play him on defence, he will blow himself up 9 games out of 10. But for the other game, he will smash open a cage and hurt people. Plus: bombs being lobbed around all over the pitch = fun. He will also take forever to skill, so won't gain much TV. On a normal skill, I'd almost consider catch or diving catch... on a 2nd normal skill I'd retire him and re-hire. One thing I've tried (not yet successfully) is to use him as a ball-carrier, to get those skills quicker.
Pogoer: I'm biased, on TT I had one with +AG and sure hands. I love them.
Ball & chain: MB, grab, hope for doubles for block, sure feet, dodge, tackle... stand firm is also useful to stop people -2d pushing him away.
Trolls: yeah, big guys in general suck. Unfortunately I think goblins need them for extra muscle.
Normal goblins: diving tackle, side step, fire.
Apothecary: not worth it until you get someone good. You start the team at 900k max so you can afford a replacement troll (worst case scenario), and should always have something in the bank. |
_________________
NAF name: sandwich |
|
|
|
| |
Gnome Roster - how a...
Search
