| Poll |
| Is CLAWPOMB really a problem? |
| Yes, absolutley |
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55% |
[ 464 ] |
| No, Chaos Dwarfs Disagree |
|
20% |
[ 174 ] |
| Still Haven't Decided |
|
8% |
[ 75 ] |
| Pie! |
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15% |
[ 127 ] |
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| Total Votes : 840 |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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 Posted:
Sep 09, 2014 - 13:07 |
 
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| Harad wrote: | Chainsaw, overall I agree but when I've looked at the best coaches playing wood elves against the clawpomb they tend to limit to 30-40 blocks. I am sure there are examples of limiting to 20 but I can't find many who do it consistently. It's just not very likely once you've kicked off a couple of times, received your blitzes and rolled snakes at some point during the game.
So I certainly agree that I am sure this is a bigger problem for us weaker coaches but I wouldn't want the numbers to get drawn out too far.
Very happy to be put right if I've been watching the wrong games. |
I'm with Harad on this one. In 13 games with my two wood elves vs chaos (10/1/2), I've suffered less than 40 block exactly once (38 blocks against). While I wouldn't want to use such a small N for proof, it's nice to note the one game with <40 blocks was one of those 2 that I lost. =D
On average, I suffered 47.23 blocks. The games where I won biggest were the ones with most blocks against (due to more LoS setups, most likely)
While I don't think I'm a top wood elf coach, I do pretty well with them on occasion. =)
Thing is, if I'm playing (almost) fully blodged up wood elves vs low-tackle clawpombers, giving up a lot of blocks is often a good idea, since it lets me slow the opponent down. Hell, I'll often deliberately sidestep to give another player an attempt at a pow, rather than having him move out of my control and assist in caging. |
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buuface
Joined: Apr 23, 2014
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2014 - 13:14 |
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'after using piling on skill, player gets -2 AV until the start of that players next turn' |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2014 - 13:15 |
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The key thing really is giving up c/tpomb blocks to good mens.
A good coach could give up more total blocks than a poor one, but limit the c/tpomb hits and protect key players better. |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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Harad
Joined: May 11, 2014
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2014 - 13:21 |
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With that I agree wholeheartedly. Against rookies the clawpombs always seem to happen to inexpensive linemen. Against legends they always seem to happen to wardancers. |
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Chainsaw
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2014 - 13:28 |
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| the_Sage wrote: | | Thing is, if I'm playing (almost) fully blodged up wood elves vs low-tackle clawpombers, giving up a lot of blocks is often a good idea, since it lets me slow the opponent down. Hell, I'll often deliberately sidestep to give another player an attempt at a pow, rather than having him move out of my control and assist in caging. |
I was generalising. Of course there are balanced tactics that affect it. Also, the typical best case scenario is going to be giving up 22 blocks (16 blitzes, 6 LOS) so really getting below 30 will be challenging unless you can never fail a dodge and never mark and not face tents. At some point (if you are to win) you have to engage.
Anyway I forgot during my last post the obvious fix for CRP: make +AV a modifier; make it a useful skill. I'd also buff big guys by giving them a 'tough' or 'big guy' skill that would make them a bit more robust. |
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ErobererZim
Joined: Dec 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2014 - 13:51 |
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I think CPOMB is OK, yes ok there can kill faster players but when u play ranked u dont need to play vs them, when u play Box skill your Team vs CPOMB or use it self.
For me its Claw so like it is good. In the past al Dudes was crying Claws, Razor Sharp Claws WÄÄÄHH to imba. DP to Imba, but now. AL cry Claw is Imba too and DP is to weak. Damnd Guys what u want your Guys dont aged more. I know we al want awesome Teams like https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&showmatches=1&team_id=493844.
Without Aging with useless Claws and Bad DPs.
For me its the Claw AV7 the right answer vs these Building of Teams (Orcs and Dorfs). I know where I started here to play nearly the half of the Teams in Ranked was Orcs and Dorfs, cause there nearly never died and bashed hard and vs the Dirty ChaosTeams there never played and when there won aswell cause the spam of Guards and more Strange (Orcs) on the Pitch. nearly every good Orc/Dorf died/retired not cause injuries there be retired cause Aging. The think is Orcs and Dorfs dominating Year of Year the BB Scene and now it changed and the Domination isnt more so hard and more Balanced (cause CPOMB).
Claw is a Devil vs Basher Teams, but the most AGI Teams be not interested in that the Guy have Claw or not (for me, yes he hat Claw not Tackle in the most sentences). And I have to say I have more problems with AGI Teams vs Dorfs AND Orcs not the ChaosTeams.
When u will Say we have to made Claw weaker, than made +AV stronger and say +AV works vs Claws, so +AV on the Clawroll so 8 not 7.
PO is a think for themself I for me think its fine but its made to much cas but how to fixx it. making DP Stronger? No never it will not kill only CPOMBER it will kill every Player faster incl Gutters and Dancers without Assist, aswell you say DP is like Claw. AV7 but no +for Assists. And u forget that the CPOMB Player have DPs too, and in the most sentences much more as u, watch on the CD and Nurgle Teams. For me I think it will be the right think when the PO used player get stunned when he kicked one player not from the pitch, like he have to roll down from the Opponent but the Opponent hold on em down to pitch. Or the Version when he roll a pash he Piled on but was itself taken too, like jumping in an kick or high knee. |
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Harad
Joined: May 11, 2014
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2014 - 14:12 |
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I have tried to give a little thought to this:
There needs to be a mechanism by which bash teams in particular can remove players. Otherwise they are at a disadvantage; and
Teams with high AV ideally should not have a structural advantage over the long term.
Set against this, my minor issue with clawpomb is that it can change blood bowl from one strategy game to another. I most enjoy the dynamic without clawpomb. Sometimes clawpomb can come down to whether a single player is or is not removed with each team's killer trying to get the other one out. This is almost a different meta game. It's certainly challenging and tactical but just slightly less appealing to my preferences.
I don't have the answer (maybe it's fouling), but I wonder if blocking just needs to be a tiny bit more effective and then we wouldn't need piling on to make it work. |
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Harad
Joined: May 11, 2014
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2014 - 14:17 |
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Whilst I'm thinking about it...
Fouling could be the answer. It has always bothered me that it can be more effective to stay on the floor. What if the rules were changed such that you can commit as many fouls as you like during your turn BUT only on players who were already down at the end of your opponents turn i.e. you can't knock someone down and foul them in the same turn.
Probably a stupid idea but it appeals to me on several levels. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2014 - 14:22 |
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| ErobererZim wrote: | | I think CPOMB is OK, yes ok there can kill faster players but when u play ranked u dont need to play vs them, when u play Box skill your Team vs CPOMB or use it self. |
"Is OK because you don't need to play vs it" is very amusing logic  .
When you play Box skilling a whole team to face Clawpomb is not so easy actually, and, if you talk about picking Fend, you need to spam Fend across your team in order to have a decent protection, while a single clawpomber is more easily to build, less TV-expensive and more effective.
| ErobererZim wrote: | | Damnd Guys what u want your Guys dont aged more. |
Ageing was a good concept, but badly designed because too random, a player could age when picking the first skill, while some lucky players could get 4-5 skills without Ageing. I'd like an Ageing based on number of games played or Legend based (starting to roll when a player becomes a Legend, and after each game).
This would affect mainly freak scorers and clawpombers, the 2 most common Legend players.
| ErobererZim wrote: |
and now it changed and the Domination isnt more so hard and more Balanced (cause CPOMB). |
Actually the metagame shifted from Orcs' and Dwarfs' domination to Clawpomb/Agile teams' domination, hybrid teams have no place in the competition at high TV.
| ErobererZim wrote: |
Claw is a Devil vs Basher Teams, but the most AGI Teams be not interested in that the Guy have Claw or not (for me, yes he hat Claw not Tackle in the most sentences). |
Ok but still there are Mighty Blow, Piling On taking their toll, and don't forget the Hybrid teams that struggle vs Clawpomb. |
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cdassak
Joined: Oct 23, 2013
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2014 - 14:26 |
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Don't know if it has been suggested but what if Claw reduced AV by 1.
Treat AV8 as AV7, AV9 as AV8 and AV10 as AV9.
Orcs, Dorfs and Big Guys wouldn't be so vulnerable to it and taking +AV would not be more or less meaningless.
Then again probably Orcs and Dorfs don't deserve this protection but Ogres certainly do  |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2014 - 14:36 |
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I cant go below 30 blocks allowed with woodies. Typically 35 is a very good number for me. 40 happens quite often. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2014 - 14:48 |
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| cdassak wrote: | Don't know if it has been suggested but what if Claw reduced AV by 1.
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Then Claw would be too strong against AV 7 teams like Skaven, Norse, Elves, etc. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2014 - 15:09 |
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claw should be reduce by 2 to a min of 7, then av10 is worthwhile.
FIXED
next ?
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2014 - 15:15 |
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| Garion wrote: | claw should be reduce by 2 to a min of 7, then av10 is worthwhile.
FIXED
next ?
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I'm just waiting for the randomly pre-determined number of pages to happen. This thread was set up as a trap. When we hit that number, the last five posters have anthrax released through their keyboards (and not the good 80's thrash type).
Why quote Garion? He's the only one who knows what the number is.
Safe! \o/ |
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keggiemckill
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 09, 2014 - 15:19 |
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This is how you take care of a CPOMBer. It's only a turn and a half game.
https://www.fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=3598456 |
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The Drunker I get, the more I spill
"Keggie is the guy with the bleach blond hair that gives answers nobody else would think of."
Jeffro |
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