mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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 Posted:
Oct 27, 2014 - 03:36 |
 
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| BillBrasky wrote: | | Do you even box JAR? |
Box is the new leg day. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2014 - 03:43 |
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| paradocks wrote: | | My 2 cents is this: Rookie protection actually helps the minmaxers. If I'm coaching a new rookie team of mine, I don't care if it gets retired by a cpomb minmax team - I actually look forward to the opportunity of being able to hurt their star while I'm risking nothing in the match. |
Your thesis is unsupported as every team can get a shot to hurt the star player in any given game. |
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Dunenzed
Joined: Oct 28, 2011
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Oct 27, 2014 - 06:07 |
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| DukeTyrion wrote: | I guess it's because the formula is also an area which can control how people perceive the game and therefore whether they are willing to play in or stay in the box.
Having a good record play constantly up 600tv might be one thing, but if the coach is losing 50% of his team each match doing it, then he might decide to start playing elsewhere. |
I kinda wonder if you're arguing in favour of option A) (Christer's suitability suggestion). Since you know, having a good record playing at roughly equal TV might be one thing, but if the coach is losing 50% of his team each match doing it (or playing the same killer races too often), then he might decide to start playing elsewere as well. |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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Oct 27, 2014 - 10:24 |
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| Dunenzed wrote: |
I kinda wonder if you're arguing in favour of option A) (Christer's suitability suggestion). Since you know, having a good record playing at roughly equal TV might be one thing, but if the coach is losing 50% of his team each match doing it (or playing the same killer races too often), then he might decide to start playing elsewere as well. |
At the same tv teams should have their own players to counter some of the damage. Blodge, Fend, DP, their own MB/PO players. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Oct 27, 2014 - 10:34 |
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It costs me one million gold coins each time I have to restart a team that gets shredded. I'm not rich enough to spend that kind of money on a hobby. |
_________________
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2014 - 13:09 |
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| DukeTyrion wrote: | | Dunenzed wrote: |
I kinda wonder if you're arguing in favour of option A) (Christer's suitability suggestion). Since you know, having a good record playing at roughly equal TV might be one thing, but if the coach is losing 50% of his team each match doing it (or playing the same killer races too often), then he might decide to start playing elsewere as well. |
At the same tv teams should have their own players to counter some of the damage. Blodge, Fend, DP, their own MB/PO players. |
Oh really?  |
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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Oct 27, 2014 - 13:13 |
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| DukeTyrion wrote: | | Dunenzed wrote: |
I kinda wonder if you're arguing in favour of option A) (Christer's suitability suggestion). Since you know, having a good record playing at roughly equal TV might be one thing, but if the coach is losing 50% of his team each match doing it (or playing the same killer races too often), then he might decide to start playing elsewere as well. |
At the same tv teams should have their own players to counter some of the damage. Blodge, Fend, DP, their own MB/PO players. |
Oh really? |
_________________
O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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Oct 27, 2014 - 13:44 |
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| koadah wrote: | | DukeTyrion wrote: | | Dunenzed wrote: |
I kinda wonder if you're arguing in favour of option A) (Christer's suitability suggestion). Since you know, having a good record playing at roughly equal TV might be one thing, but if the coach is losing 50% of his team each match doing it (or playing the same killer races too often), then he might decide to start playing elsewere as well. |
At the same tv teams should have their own players to counter some of the damage. Blodge, Fend, DP, their own MB/PO players. |
Oh really? |
The point is, you can have an 1800tv team, play an 1800tv team, drop to 1500tv, play a 1500tv team, climb to 1600tv play a 1600tv team and all is well.
The current scenario though will have an 1800tv team play a 1800tv team, drop to 1500tv, play an 1800tv team, drop to 1300tv, play an 1800tv team ... that's where the issue is. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Oct 27, 2014 - 14:59 |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Oct 27, 2014 - 17:01 |
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| koadah wrote: | The issue is that people don't want to play 1800 killers unless they also have 1800 killers.
So, we just get more and more killers. |
39 pages later and we finally arrive at the "rub" of this discussion.
How does the box attract coaches who WANT to play against 1800 TV killers because right now that % of the box player base is at about 5% right now. The other 95% only want to play against 1800+ TV killers with kill stack teams of their own. |
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Comish of the:  |
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Joemanji
Joined: Jan 15, 2011
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Oct 27, 2014 - 17:05 |
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I doubt the 95% really want to play 1800 TV killers at all. It's just that if they are going to have to play them (central to the idea of Box) they don't want to end up bringing a spoon to a gun fight.
Anyway, the problem is CPomb not Box. If CPomb were changed there would just be another route of least resistance (Guard spam?). Although I guess at least that would be less efficient / crippling. |
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*This post may have been made without the use of a hat. |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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Oct 27, 2014 - 17:21 |
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| koadah wrote: | The issue is that people don't want to play 1800 killers unless they also have 1800 killers.
So, we just get more and more killers. |
I am fine with playing 1800 killers with 1800 Wood Elves. What I am not fine with is playing 1800 killers with 1200 Wood Elves that are trying to recover. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Oct 27, 2014 - 17:24 |
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| PainState wrote: | | How does the box attract coaches who WANT to play against 1800 TV killers because right now that % of the box player base is at about 5% right now. The other 95% only want to play against 1800+ TV killers with kill stack teams of their own. |
Please no BS, the exact %s are in this thread.
| Joemanji wrote: | I doubt the 95% really want to play 1800 TV killers at all. It's just that if they are going to have to play them (central to the idea of Box) they don't want to end up bringing a spoon to a gun fight.
Anyway, the problem is CPomb not Box. If CPomb were changed there would just be another route of least resistance (Guard spam?). Although I guess at least that would be less efficient / crippling. |
Again BS, even without the inflated %. People play what they want, the idea of people using teams they don't want to use is preposterous, and Elves are only a spoon if the gunfight is staying at 1800 TV, they certainly do well enough at winning.
You are correct that if Clawpomb was nerfed the Box would be wall to wall Orcs and Dwarfs Guardspamming and Tackle Pombing the Elfs out of existence completely. |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby!
Last edited by JimmyFantastic on %b %27, %2014 - %17:%Oct; edited 2 times in total |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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| Posted:
Oct 27, 2014 - 17:26 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | PainState wrote: | | How does the box attract coaches who WANT to play against 1800 TV killers because right now that % of the box player base is at about 5% right now. The other 95% only want to play against 1800+ TV killers with kill stack teams of their own. |
Please no BS, the exact %s are in this thread. |
They aren't exact. The real figures are slightly lower, because not every team from one of the killer races is built that way. |
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 Nerf Ball 2014 |
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Joemanji
Joined: Jan 15, 2011
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Oct 27, 2014 - 18:20 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | Again BS, even without the inflated %. People play what they want, the idea of people using teams they don't want to use is preposterous, and Elves are only a spoon if the gunfight is staying at 1800 TV, they certainly do well enough at winning.
You are correct that if Clawpomb was nerfed the Box would be wall to wall Orcs and Dwarfs Guardspamming and Tackle Pombing the Elfs out of existence completely. |
I'm not suggesting people play teams they don't want to. But if there are 24 races and multiple ways of developing those teams then (for the sake of argument) let's say that there are >50 different 'options'. Three of these options are killer Chaos, Nurgle or CDs. I'm only suggesting that many coaches will gravitate to using these options more frequently than 3 times in 50 than they would in another environment (or whatever, exact number not central to the point).
Whatever, I'm not ragging on you personally for being a Cpmomb pony. Not my bag, but you have fun and each to their own. Killer teams still gets games in Ranked, it isn't like people in Box are doing something wrong.
I really like Box in principle, as it is a fantastic rigour test for the rules. It will always be 'dirty' as people push the rules to the limits, and that is the absolute perfect testing ground for any ruleset. If anything the problem isn't even Cpomb, it is that the rules haven't changed for 5 years. The problem is there are not enough problems, just obvious solutions as to what is 'best' or most effective / efficient. An evolving metagame is much more desirable IMO, as you are more often in the exciting "ooh maybe this works" phase rather than the "oh right this again" we currently have. |
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*This post may have been made without the use of a hat. |
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