Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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 Posted:
Feb 05, 2015 - 00:01 |
 
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| Macabeo wrote: | That's the point, a MA5 AG3 ball carrier doesn't have the speed or mobility to rely on hand offs and quick passes. That's why passing skills come in handy, even more so in a team with so many potential receivers.
Nerves of Steel...
...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not promoting passing every single time. As I see it, Orangutans are more distributors than runner/thrower hybrids. |
Well, that's the problem - a "distributor" is generally a bad game plan unless they themselves can present some sort of threat, either a threat to evade or to score themself if not pressured - and Orangutans just aren't really the best bet to deliver on either.
Having an option to "distribute" to whomever you want has to be balanced against both the versatility and the reliability (and necessity) of that distribution, and while a 2+ catch on most any player is (relatively) solid, that behind a Pass behind MA 5 with Ag 3 dodge (w/ no Dodge) and a pickup w/ no Sure Hands is not the way many coaches want to plan to start a drive.
Meanwhile, no Block OR Dodge on a Thrower increases the "necessity" to make that distribution sooner than later ifr trhere's any pressure (and tends toinvite that pressure more), and that fairly predictable pressure only compounds the situation.
And only worse if the Orang' doesn't have at least those 2 skills, Pass + Accurate, (and KoR and Sure Hands are high on the list as well, leaving no room for Nerves of Steel/etc).
So first you need to funnel 16 spp for 2 skills to an MA 5 player just to start to have a 2+ Pickup 2+ Pass (w/ RR) & 2+ Catch - all based around MA 5. Which means that if the Kick isn't friendly, it's either a 3+ Pass that is still behind the LoS, or the direction/location of the "distribution" is dictated by that kick (or both), and you'd be better off planning to field the ball with a MA 6 lino (or MA 7 Chimp) and handoff to your designated ballcarrrier, save the rolls.
Not that it's not doable, but it's just not at all attractive as a team-skill goal, at least not to me.
Now, all that said, APE does have 1 team with an Orangutan who only recently skilled up for Pass, and had already doubled for Dodge - so we'll have to see how well that can work for that coach/team in Season 2. |
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Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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Macabeo
Joined: Feb 13, 2011
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2015 - 09:51 |
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No, no, I think you misunderstood me. The comment about NoS and Safe Throw was addressed to SunDevil, who was a bit disappointed with the performance of the team and may consider tweaks in the future.
Of course I'd pick Block, Accurate, Leader,... before NoS and Safe Throw. What I meant is giving the orangutans either skill for free as a buff, because many see the orangutan as the weakest player of the team (I went through it in the player analysis I did). |
Last edited by Macabeo on %b %05, %2015 - %09:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2015 - 09:55 |
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The first round of the King of the Jungle is done, the final is set!
In the Guard vs. Block battle of #1 seed From Chimpan-A to Chimpan-Z (4 Guards, 1 Block) vs. #4 seed CHUMP (2 Guards, 4 Block), the Guard allowed many more blocks (27:19 1st half, 31:23 2nd) and largely control the position and maintain pressure. But the casualties were not proportional, and that made back the difference.
CHUMP received after a Riot, and 4 Turns later, felt obliged to try a blitz/ 3+ dodge with the ballcarrier for the score, which failed, losing the ball. But a 9:7 player advantage (and a Turn-ending 1d Skull for A-Z) allowed them to recover again, bad A-Z dice let them survive the blitz, and CHUMP finally dodged (successfully this time) to a Turn 6 score. The earlier Riot came into play as 2 Turns was not enough play it safe for A-Z to tie, and a 5+ Int stopped the score, 1-0 CHUMP at the half.
Despite A-Z outblocking 3:2 during the 1st half, 11 faced 11 again in the 2nd Half (CHUMP out an Orangutan, A-Z out the Chimp and Guard Lino). But now it was CHUMP's turn to feel the bash, and A-Z ground down the field, surviving a sole 1-d Blitz on the ball and taking out players as they went - 1-1 tie, Turn 16 kick coming up.
2 KO's woke up for CHUMP, including their +MA Chimp, so 8 players lined up against 9 for a sketchy OTS try. Then - another Riot turned a 1-Turn prayer into a 2-Turn possibility. 3 CHUMP players moved downfield into scoring range, 2 in a loose screen against the 6-man OTS defense near the goal line. The blitz found only a Push (and the LoS failed their 1st dodge), and CHUMP found a knockdown and then made a 2+ GFI, 3+ Throw and 2+ Catch, 2+ handoff Catch, and 2 more GFI's to score and win,, 2-1! Lucky, at several key points in that game, but they move on.
The Bruellaffen vs. Infinite Monkey Theorem game was less dramatic but perhaps even more influenced by Casualties and bad dice. Bruellaffen chose to receive, and (after dodging the worst of a Thrown Rock), opened with double-Skulls, burning the 1st of their 2 RR's, but fielded the ball mid-half. After trading players out, a [i]second double-Skulls ate their last RR, and a failed GFI ended their turn with the ballcarrier unmoved and unscreened at the extreme edge of blitz range. Their Turn 2, IMT found those GFI's, and a Pow and recovered on 6 on the a lucky bounce, then KO'd a Gorilla and B's dodging Chimp! Altho' looking in bad shape, B KO'd a Gorilla in replay, and found a knockdown of their own and made the recovery with their Pass/Dodge Orangutan to end Turn 3!
Both teams struggled for position for 2 Turns as the ruck grew to 9+ players, then B broke away via Silverback blitz & chainpush, knocking out another Gorilla in the chaos. But IMT blitzed and recovered again to end Turn 5 - and B's no-RR luck ran out with a several turns of Skulls, and IMT dodged and passed clear for the stall and T8 defensive score, 1-0 IMT at the half.
Bruellaffen's KO's did not wake up, so 8 lined up to stop 10 to start the 2nd half, both sides out a Gorilla. But it was IMT's turn to find Skulls, then Both-Down on the RR before securing the ball. Bruellaffen headed immediately for the loose ball, before blitzing - but failed the 3+ pickup, leaving key players still prone. IMT caged up near the LoS, and moved downfield while Bruellaffen knocked out 2 players and tried to cut the cage off, but managed nothing more than marking the ballcarrier, even when the score threatened, and Turn 5 a 3+ dodge put IMT up 2-0.
Down by 2 with 4 Turns to go, Breullaffen found their knockouts waking up, but displayed no urgency to score even as their Player advantage grew with another IMT Gorilla and Lino out, waiting until Turn 7 when, out of RR's, they failed a 2+ handoff, then managed to throw for the T16 consolation score, 1-2 Infinite Monkey Theorem. |
_________________
Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2015 - 10:44 |
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| Macabeo wrote: | | No, no, I think you misunderstood me... |
Ah, so I did, jumped track somewhere, nm.
But my comments re the unaccaptability of the current Orang' to contribute to any successful "passing threat" game plan stand.
If I were to suggest a solution, the first that jumps to mind would be the rubber-stamp Sure Hands. Doesn't solve a lot of the problems, but at least he can pickup the ball reliably even if he's used the RR to GFI, if that's how the team is going to start a drive.
(It would be a bit of a gutcheck to make the slowest player into the primary SH ballcarrier, but if the cage (4 Gorillas + Silverback) are only moving 5... hell, we've seen other races do it.  )
(Or... Catch? That would be interesting - set him up to be handed the ball by a faster player (or via a Pass from the other Orang'!), to then feed it back out again???)
(And either of those fit an Ape w/ exceptionally large hands.)
But on further reflection, what I'd suggest over either of those is... Sure Feet! Not a perfect solution to the speed problem, but enough of one. And it fits an ape that might run, or might tumble a bit when he tries. He might be as slow as a Gorilla, might be as fast as a Chimp... if you wanna risk it.
NoS? Sure, I guess, but that's so situational, and doesn't solve the central problem of fielding the ball nor moving to the receiver. SF feels better to me (and is more generally useful to make him something real). |
_________________
Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2015 - 10:54 |
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NOTE:
Infinite Monkey Theorem and CHUMP are scheduled to play their championship King of the Jungle game in about 13 hours, around 2300 UTC today, Thursday!
CHUMP is down a Gorilla MNG and running 1 j-man, so will be getting some 250k in Inducements, having their work cut out for them against the better skilled and stronger 13-player IMT, fielding 4 skilled Gorillas, a Silverback and a +St blocking lino.
(I know who I'd bet on...)  |
_________________
Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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m0gw41
Joined: Jun 12, 2012
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2015 - 11:07 |
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Well I kinda feel like sure feet is just a riskier +MA. I guess a tree dwelling Orang should have sure feet so it is fluffy enough but I think there is a reason he is set at MA5, he is probably meant to be immobile (but you should check with SunDevil). Throwers are maligned on most teams at least this one's armour gives him some benefit. I am not sure about taking one yet, I am giving the Big Guy a go first! |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 05, 2015 - 11:18 |
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"A riskier +MA" - yep, zactly. Makes them distinct from MA 6 Passers - both better and worse with one skill.
(Just last game I lost one who skilled up that game - so I'll have to wait to speak from personal experience. But gonna miss that player in the championships, I'm sure.) |
_________________
Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 06, 2015 - 01:02 |
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(Championship game delayed until Sunday, about 1 hour before "now".) |
_________________
Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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deyempe
Joined: Aug 14, 2013
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| Posted:
Feb 06, 2015 - 13:33 |
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is it too late to get in on this?.. will there be a 2nd season  |
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SunDevil
Joined: Dec 13, 2010
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Feb 06, 2015 - 15:26 |
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Thanks to everyone, yet again, for running the Simyin through their paces and coming up with good ideas for roster tweaks.
On my TT Simyin team, I have a Sure Hands, Pass, Accurate Orang and he is near the top of the league in passing. On my 3DB FUMBBL League Simyin team, I just hired a second Orang to try the Block/Fend/help out the Gorillas on the line idea that another coach here had. So he has options!
But I do get the most feedback on the Orang's perceived role and the Gorilla's toughness. Of all the ideas I have heard, there is one I like the most for the Gorillas (no, I'm not sharing!) because it is not the most conventional.
As for the Orang, who I personally love because of his stubborn refusal to be a standard thrower, I have to admit to liking the Sure Feet idea. Adding Sure Hands or Pass for free is quality, but oh so boring and been-there-done-that. I like Dump-Off and could see some fun involving a Block/Dump-Off/Fend Orang runner with all those 2+ catchers around. Though that does sort of waste his Strong Arm.
Back on point - Sure Feet is intriguing. Any tweak the roster gets will need to be equally effective and original. There will be no free Sure Hands or Pass. But Sure Feet? Or the Big Hand that he had up until late-stage playtesting? Maybe.
Keep those ideas coming! Though I would politely ask that the Orang-haters out there hire one (or two!) and play them to really give the Con side of the argument more data.
Carry on, lads! |
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Macabeo
Joined: Feb 13, 2011
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| Posted:
Feb 06, 2015 - 16:20 |
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| SunDevil wrote: | | But I do get the most feedback on the Orang's perceived role and the Gorilla's toughness. |
The Gorilla's toughness? I think they're fine.
| SunDevil wrote: | | Back on point - Sure Feet is intriguing. Any tweak the roster gets will need to be equally effective and original. There will be no free Sure Hands or Pass. But Sure Feet? Or the Big Hand that he had up until late-stage playtesting? Maybe. |
I agree about the snorefest that Sure Hands or Pass is, but Sure Feet is only marginally better (it's just extra speed) and isn't very fluffy to say the least. I still advocate Nerves of Steel or Safe Throw, orangutans look quite chill to me. |
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m0gw41
Joined: Jun 12, 2012
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| Posted:
Feb 06, 2015 - 16:33 |
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I will get around to hiring a Throrangutan at some point, probably when I (or nuffle) decide that my gimped -MA/+AG chimp has reached the end of his usefulness. |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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| Posted:
Feb 06, 2015 - 20:38 |
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| deyempe wrote: | | is it too late to get in on this?.. will there be a 2nd season |
Yep, 100% - see "Let's go APE!" recruitment thread.
| SunDevil wrote: | | But I do get the most feedback on the... Gorilla's toughness. |
Yeah, yeah, AV 8 is not AV 9, film at 11. It is low considering their St 4 role, but 4-5x Grab does give them a surprise edge in the bash battle, and AV 8 keeps them from being generic.
TS would be about the only thing to offer - meh, maybe, but I haven't seen them dropping that fast. |
_________________
Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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| Posted:
Mar 02, 2015 - 02:17 |
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Season 2 of A.P.E is starting!
12 Coaches, 12 Simyins Teams and 12 Teams representing other races in an 11-game Round Robin with each Ape team playing all the "other" races available.
This season, 'Zons, Pro Elfs and... Ogres have joined the fun! All Teams have been allowed to build up to ~TV 1450 (altho' some few were higher at the end of Season 1).
Should be an interesting season - ook ook! |
_________________
Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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Patator
Joined: Jan 05, 2015
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| Posted:
Mar 02, 2015 - 03:37 |
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Well first game was a lot of fun. The Simyin ad a huge tv advantage vs rookie amazone. But dodges and mithrill wonderbra where tough to break (only one lonly ko) whereas our fur got shred by dirty angry (wo)men (cf their coach). And Zara was there and proved once again why she is a true star of this game ! 2 cs and an incredible blitz betwin a horde of wild monkeys make her the true MVP for the girls.
Fun fact : no dodges (abeit with rr) where failed that game.
Thanks again Fidus ! Was a good one ! |
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