Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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 Posted:
Dec 23, 2014 - 20:20 |
 
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| gamelsetlmatch wrote: | | Reading through the posts that have been made already, it is clear to see that the coaches who have put aside preconceived notions and just played the race, have grown attached to them. |
I have played all four elf teams extensively, and I can safely say that they are far and away the worst of the four. No competent blood bowl coach is willingly going to trade 2 dark elf blitzers and 2 witch elves for 4 HE catchers, even if you decide the runner/thrower trade is in HE's favor.
High Elves are, on the other hand, probably quite a bit better than most of the hybrid teams (norse, human, necro, etc). They have the advantage looking fairly harmless from a casualty standpoint. This gives them an advantage in the ranked environment with respect to getting favorable matches. I don't think for a minute that I would be able to replicate my 75% winning percentage with HE in box, because a good amount of that winning percentage comes from getting better matchups from coaches looking for a soft game. My High Elves got a lot of wins against teams like Orcs, Necromantic, and Chaos, and probably not ones with multiple killstack players either. It's telling that the team only has multiple losses against two races, Dark Elves (3/4/3) and Wood Elves (2/3/2). High elves aren't good elfballers, they are anti-bash elves.
Make no mistake, my high elves took advantage of favorable matchups when they could. This is one of the few areas where HE have an advantage. Even when carrying two mighty blow blitzers and a piling on lineman, the High Elf reputation lends itself to easier games.
If I could reliably get what I consider to be fun and even matchups with my Wood Elves, I probably wouldn't play high elves at all. Other ranked players tend to have a different opinion of how fair legendary mighty blow wardancers are, and thus I play High Elves quite a bit. |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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| Posted:
Dec 23, 2014 - 20:53 |
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Now you have me going... so let's move on to:
Fixing High Elves
Option 1 - More Blitzers
The simple and probably most balanced solution would be to move blitzers to 0-4 and catchers to 0-2. This is easy, but has the disadvantage of making the team even more like Dark Elves.
Option 2 - Better Catchers
Giving catchers dodge would certainly help the roster quite a bit. One of the big "problems" with the catchers is how slowly they develop. I'd probably make them 0-2 on top of the additional skill, as we have seen from Dark Elf how crazy getting 6 players one skill from blodge is.
+1 AV doesn't seem like a good solution. It would probably encourage more catcher usage, but I'd have a hard time getting behind it without addressing the human catcher at long last.
Option 3 - Better Throwers
High Elf throwers are supposedly the best in the game, although I think the Wood Elf thrower has an argument there. Making them faster or giving them an extra skill like sure hands would help. I think it would be great if high elf throwers were good enough to actually use two on a team. This would likely require them getting a core skill like block. I really like the idea of improving the throwers, because throwers in general aren't used much. Clearly players don't value the passing skills as highly as TV does.
You don't have to fix High Elves, and there are most definitely teams that could use the love more. But if you did want to bring High Elves into the top tier, one of these changes would get them closer, and two would probably have them up there with the best teams in bloodbowl. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Dec 23, 2014 - 23:14 |
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Crikey. Just... Crikey.
It's Christmas, so the last thing I want to do is get deeply involved in a particular Blood Bowl psyche when I should be being drunk and eating too much. But I couldn't not say crikey. That is one set of posts / manifesto / interpretation.  |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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| Posted:
Dec 24, 2014 - 08:57 |
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forsev
Joined: Feb 12, 2013
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Dec 30, 2014 - 05:28 |
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Give high Elf one Christmas Tree. |
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WolfyDan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 06, 2015 - 04:11 |
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Rat, I have a totally different interpretation of HE! For me the catchers are the key players. You lose the 'star starters' (WE / WD) but you get 4 players with wardancer base stats.
Definitely one for the long game, which is why they tend to do poorly at the start as they lack core skills. But the suggestions you make, for me, just make them look like every other elf team. I love that they are so different, and with it so customisable. |
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DrPoods
Joined: Nov 14, 2013
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| Posted:
Jan 06, 2015 - 04:27 |
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| WolfyDan wrote: | Rat, I have a totally different interpretation of HE! For me the catchers are the key players. You lose the 'star starters' (WE / WD) but you get 4 players with wardancer base stats.
Definitely one for the long game, which is why they tend to do poorly at the start as they lack core skills. But the suggestions you make, for me, just make them look like every other elf team. I love that they are so different, and with it so customisable. |
Catchers are great in the long run. |
_________________
"Gallifrey falls no more"
Do your part! Join the Adoption Agency NOW! |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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| Posted:
Jan 06, 2015 - 05:38 |
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| Rat_Salat wrote: | Now you have me going... so let's move on to:
Fixing High Elves
Option 1 - More Blitzers
The simple and probably most balanced solution would be to move blitzers to 0-4 and catchers to 0-2. This is easy, but has the disadvantage of making the team even more like Dark Elves.
Option 2 - Better Catchers
Giving catchers dodge would certainly help the roster quite a bit. One of the big "problems" with the catchers is how slowly they develop. I'd probably make them 0-2 on top of the additional skill, as we have seen from Dark Elf how crazy getting 6 players one skill from blodge is.
+1 AV doesn't seem like a good solution. It would probably encourage more catcher usage, but I'd have a hard time getting behind it without addressing the human catcher at long last.
Option 3 - Better Throwers
High Elf throwers are supposedly the best in the game, although I think the Wood Elf thrower has an argument there. Making them faster or giving them an extra skill like sure hands would help. I think it would be great if high elf throwers were good enough to actually use two on a team. This would likely require them getting a core skill like block. I really like the idea of improving the throwers, because throwers in general aren't used much. Clearly players don't value the passing skills as highly as TV does.
You don't have to fix High Elves, and there are most definitely teams that could use the love more. But if you did want to bring High Elves into the top tier, one of these changes would get them closer, and two would probably have them up there with the best teams in bloodbowl. |
I think you make a good point about it being the Throwers getting a buff could be the way to go. Something that would make using at least 1 HE Thrower something everyone playing an HE team would do without question. Something that would make people want to use 2 HE Throwers more often. I am not sure what that would be.
Starting with a Core Skill like Dodge or Block or Wrestle would be nice and could push the Thrower into a the starting build for most coaches.
Adding an additional passing skill like Accuracy, Nerves of Steel or the double Strong Arm in addition to Safe Throw might make it more enticing.
Sure Hands is certainly valuable and would make having at least 1 Thrower worth it.
Maybe Leader and the free RR it comes with would do the trick without being to OP.
Or a skill like Sprint or Sure Feet or Pro.
IDK... just throwing out a few suggestions. |
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RedDevilCG
Joined: Jan 09, 2010
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Jan 06, 2015 - 06:13 |
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Leader is interesting. Would that also be a bit fluffy? |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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Jan 06, 2015 - 09:29 |
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| RedDevilCG wrote: | | Leader is interesting. Would that also be a bit fluffy? |
Could be. Quarterbacks are often the Leaders of their teams in American Football. Why not Throwers with the Leader skill?
Although... it might not be as much of an enticement as I previously thought now that I think about it. High Elves can just buy a Reroll for 50k at start-up... and 100k afterwards. So a player that (currently) costs 90k might not be worth hiring just for an extra Reroll.
IDK. I don't use Leader very much on my teams. |
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DrPoods
Joined: Nov 14, 2013
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Jan 06, 2015 - 09:38 |
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I can just imagine an HE Thrower with Pro...
"Quiet would you, of course I have it under control"
Pro roll: 2
"......." |
_________________
"Gallifrey falls no more"
Do your part! Join the Adoption Agency NOW! |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Jan 06, 2015 - 10:15 |
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erm why do they need a buff again? |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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| Posted:
Jan 06, 2015 - 10:16 |
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Were high elves more popular before the introduction of pro elves? Because I could easily see some splitting going on there... it makes sense to have a wood elf team and a high elf/pro elf team, because they're different. It makes sense to have a dark elf team and a high elf/pro elf team, because they're different. But who has a high elf team and a pro elf team? They're practically the same thing! Either you go high elves and pay for lino armor you don't want, or you go pro elves and pay for catcher NOS you don't want, and either way you start able to do less than the other two. They can get good because they're elves and elves can do a lot, but whatever you want to specialize in, there's a team that can do more of it.
You know what? I'll start a high elf team and get back to you. If HEs do one thing well it's passing, and as a coach who loves the passing game more than 99% of FUMBBL, maybe I'll find something to like. |
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Beat Claw, Play AV7
(Hell, I ran a forward passing orc team back in the '90s. You probably shouldn't listen to me. Ever.) |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 06, 2015 - 10:22 |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Jan 06, 2015 - 10:42 |
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Pro elves have NoS, its their trait, no point making high elves more like them. |
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