FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Posted: Dec 23, 2014 - 19:15

The problem is Matt (and I'm not totally averse to the idea btw), people could just as easily say the same about other races. Take Khemri for example - the box is a really nasty place for them, very very hard to get a good record with them because their TGs can take 30 games+ to get their 1st skill sometimes, and even die just as they get that first skill, so when you hit 30 games with Khemri they start getting matched up against teams with HUGE TVs while they have barely had time to develop at all. So to play devils advocate, why not introduce a rule that gives Khemri a buffer of 50 games where the rest of the teams get a 30 game one.

Or you could say Elves I want to play 150 TV down every game, because they are better if they are exactly 150 TV down than they can ever be through team building.

and so on and so on....

One thing to keep in mind though, because of the new scheduler - flings and gobos with a lot of games will get matched against much higher TV teams if you keep your tv down, because of the amount of games they have played. So you can make stunty teams that abuse inducements if you really want to.

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MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Dec 23, 2014 - 19:24

JimmyFantastic wrote:

Matt - your idea works for gobbos and flings but would make it even harder for brogres. They could maybe get a modifier the other way around.

Why harder?
An Ogre team TV 1000 would be matched vs a TV 1100 team.
That means either 1 extra reroll or 1 wandering Apo or 1 bribe or 2 cards or 2 babes.

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Dec 23, 2014 - 19:32

xnoelx wrote:

Well I was talking over 10+ games. However, with the latest scheduler, it seems to me that the best way to play them is at 30+ games, when you can get games with a big enough TV gap to give you inducements. Because, contrary to your statement, not all their games would be at the same TV.

I agree that the new scheduler is better than older, the problem is that you have to suck it up for 30 games before being able to trim heavily your TV (by dropping 2 rerolls or some skilled players) in order to get inducements.
I'm looking forward to do that, the problem is that playing for 30 games with Halflings at a disadvantage makes them less attractive.
Maybe stunty teams should have a protection enabled for 10 games, instead of 30 games like now.

xnoelx wrote:

Still, if you (as one of the CR-fretters you're using as the target audience) already play them without the modifier, then there is no need for it.

People played in the Box before the last scheduler change, the point is that if I can play a stunty team with a better scheduler I'm more inclined to activate them often.

xnoelx wrote:

I just don't find those teams unplayable. I've had a record sprinting with stunties at least as good as I have with elves, for example. Playstyle is definitely a factor if you find them unplayable.

How many matches is a sprint?
By the way 31% Goblins, 26% Halflings, 21% Ogres don't look to me as playable win rates.

Last edited by MattDakka on %b %23, %2014 - %19:%Dec; edited 2 times in total

xnoelx

Joined: Jun 05, 2012

Posted: Dec 23, 2014 - 19:33

16 matches in a sprint. And you probably wouldn't have to trim heavily, normal losses and the nature of the box would probably do most of the job for you.

And those win rates, as I said, are around the same level as my win rates with elves. And my overall win rate is lower than yours. Context is relevant.

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Nerf Ball 2014

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Dec 23, 2014 - 19:40

Garion wrote:

The problem is Matt (and I'm not totally averse to the idea btw), people could just as easily say the same about other races. Take Khemri for example - the box is a really nasty place for them, very very hard to get a good record with them because their TGs can take 30 games+ to get their 1st skill sometimes, and even die just as they get that first skill, so when you hit 30 games with Khemri they start getting matched up against teams with HUGE TVs while they have barely had time to develop at all. So to play devils advocate, why not introduce a rule that gives Khemri a buffer of 50 games where the rest of the teams get a 30 game one.

Or you could say Elves I want to play 150 TV down every game, because they are better if they are exactly 150 TV down than they can ever be through team building.

and so on and so on....

One thing to keep in mind though, because of the new scheduler - flings and gobos with a lot of games will get matched against much higher TV teams if you keep your tv down, because of the amount of games they have played. So you can make stunty teams that abuse inducements if you really want to.

I'm talking about stunty teams only.
Tier 1 teams don't need any help, they are reasonable good as they are now.
Stunty teams, as we know, need inducements to have a chance.
I know that stunty teams with 30+ games can trim the TV and get inducements, 30 games with a stunty team are a torture, though.
10 or 15 games would be better for stunty teams in my opinion.

Garion

Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Posted: Dec 23, 2014 - 19:44

MattDakka wrote:

Garion wrote:

The problem is Matt (and I'm not totally averse to the idea btw), people could just as easily say the same about other races. Take Khemri for example - the box is a really nasty place for them, very very hard to get a good record with them because their TGs can take 30 games+ to get their 1st skill sometimes, and even die just as they get that first skill, so when you hit 30 games with Khemri they start getting matched up against teams with HUGE TVs while they have barely had time to develop at all. So to play devils advocate, why not introduce a rule that gives Khemri a buffer of 50 games where the rest of the teams get a 30 game one.

Or you could say Elves I want to play 150 TV down every game, because they are better if they are exactly 150 TV down than they can ever be through team building.

and so on and so on....

One thing to keep in mind though, because of the new scheduler - flings and gobos with a lot of games will get matched against much higher TV teams if you keep your tv down, because of the amount of games they have played. So you can make stunty teams that abuse inducements if you really want to.

I'm talking about stunty teams only.
Tier 1 teams don't need any help, they are reasonable good as they are now.
Stunty teams, as we know, need inducements to have a chance.
I know that teams with 30+ games can trim the TV and get inducements, 30 games with a stunty team are a torture, though.
10 or 15 games would be better in my opinion.

The point is though, why give stunty teams a buff when there are other crappy teams about as well like Khemri who are far from T1.

Also after 15 games you do start getting drawn with tv gaps of 200. - https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=3612940

I would rather not have to play that game mind you, as it was a complete waste of time. Razz

_________________

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Dec 23, 2014 - 19:49

Garion wrote:

The point is though, why give stunty teams a buff when there are other crappy teams about as well like Khemri who are far from T1.

Because the stunty teams are far worse than Khemri, according to tier, design, and win rates.
Khemri can win above 60% in the Box without being played by a supercoach, while having a 60% win rate with a stunty team is way way harder. Very Happy

Garion wrote:

Also after 15 games you do start getting drawn with tv gaps of 200. - https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=3612940

I would rather not have to play that game mind you, as it was a complete waste of time. Razz

At least it wasn't vs a clawpomb team. Very Happy

Wizfall

Joined: Dec 09, 2011

Posted: Dec 23, 2014 - 20:13

Khemri are T1 without a doubt, even if low T1, at least in the Box (personal feeling confirmed by statistics).
Now that a lot of people dislike decay is different.