Leilond
Joined: Jan 02, 2012
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 Posted:
Mar 22, 2015 - 18:02 |
 
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| Kam wrote: | You're completely clueless... Do you really think AV rolls win Dorfs vs Dorfs games? Positioning does.
And Elfs roll much more dice than Dorfs for instance, so if you wanna talk about the luck factor... |
No, I'm not talking about luck factor
I'm talking about game style
If I completely dislike the game that some team build generate, why in the hell I should have to play vs them? There is no reason in the universe I should play those games
For every elf team there are 100 bashing team, under various form, and the problem is the elves that pick... ridicolous |
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Brainsaw
Joined: Sep 27, 2005
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Mar 22, 2015 - 18:14 |
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btw: my tw2400 Woodies are not among the 4 elven teams i currently play.. have a look at their last 6 games and the time they were played... ,-) |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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| Posted:
Mar 22, 2015 - 18:27 |
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| Leilond wrote: | | Kam wrote: | You're completely clueless... Do you really think AV rolls win Dorfs vs Dorfs games? Positioning does.
And Elfs roll much more dice than Dorfs for instance, so if you wanna talk about the luck factor... |
No, I'm not talking about luck factor
I'm talking about game style
If I completely dislike the game that some team build generate, why in the hell I should have to play vs them? There is no reason in the universe I should play those games
For every elf team there are 100 bashing team, under various form, and the problem is the elves that pick... ridicolous |
You were clearly talking about the luck factor when you were saying AV rolls win the games.
And don't get me wrong. I also like better to play versus some teams than others, and my stats reflect that. I find 100% normal that if you find playing versus... let's say... Slanns particularly interesting, you have a higher percentage of games versus this particular race, but what I don't understand is why you would only play games versus them? In Ranked. In a competitive division.
EA: you're saying there is no problem with picking, from an admin's point of view. But (honest question), what am I supposed to say to the rookie who's about to concede after the 1st perm apo'ed?
I used to explain them it was not to give an advantage in the long run to conceders, that it's a competitive division, and that the bashing you take, the players you lose, are a part of the natural selection needed to balance the league. Now should I just tell them "it's forbidden, don't do it"? Because if this is forbidden, and if extreme picking is not, that explanation above isn't working...  |
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GLN 17 is out!
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Nightbird
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 22, 2015 - 18:31 |
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You know this site is about having fun & having it in your own way within the rules. Everything being discussed here is within the rules. This is a pointless argument. I see people talking about raging-out if you don't accept a game vs their ultra bash team w/ your elfs or stunties. I see people saying you should shame others. This is NOT the way people. If you are really unhappy w/ how things go here the door is never far away for you to leave. Lets stop all this nonsense please & get back to having fun however we deem it & again within the rules. I'll be tuning out now. Thanks for taking the time to read my post.
Ciao,
~NB |
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"If most of us remain ignorant of ourselves, it's because self-knowledge is painful
& we prefer the pleasures of illusion." ~Aldous Huxley |
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easilyamused
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
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Mar 22, 2015 - 18:54 |
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| Jim_Fear wrote: | Discussion:
The coach who derailed the UI fluff post onto the topic of elven picking habits is a legendary crybaby, and as a coach, a picker himself. How many dwarf teams does one need? |
Heh, this post just made my day.
But seriously, the thread was derailed by one person whining because they opted to enter the smaller TV team they had and it didn't get in.
Lot's of pointless bickering followed. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Mar 22, 2015 - 18:59 |
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Hi everybody.
This isn't the first time that this topic has come around, and it won't be the last. I doubt anyone has anything new to add to the previous discussions, least of all me, but here's my take.
There are two reasons for teams to specifically play Elfball or similar in Ranked; pixel protection and Major participation. The thing is, as any half decent agility coach will tell you, coaches are shooting themselves in the foot in terms of winning Blood Bowl games in order to try and succeed in one of the two above areas. Elves may take casualties against bash, but I'd lose far less sleep running rings around Dwarves than in a Wood Elf off, which feels essentially like first snake loses random chance bingo.
Pixel protection: I don't actually see this as any more of an evil than building *that* Blackbox team. Actually, it's tougher to win games of Blood Bowl (recurring theme that; it might be all I care about apart from having fun. Sorry about that) with your pansy, pointy eared cheese mongers than it is with your minmaxed fromage machine. So, whilst it is a form of cheese present in the world in which I operate, I'm a bit meh about it all. Quite often some of these types will see an in-between team of mine (like Humans) as an easy touch, and we'll have a good, fun game because of it. So actually, it's not such a bad thing when I interface with it.
Major winning: To be utterly frank, I see Ranked Majors as the exact equivalent of Blackbox. I'm a firm believer that if you go into a Box draw with your eyes open, you have to accept the sort of Blood Bowl you are occasionally fed without then moaning about it (and that's why I don't use my precious free time in that format). Equally; if you enter a Ranked Major, you cannot then spit your dummy out if the team you're drawn to face is some inflated, carefully prepared, utterly nonsense professional wrestler of a team, and unless you get lucky or properly out-coach the guy, you're not in the game with your plucky 'built correctly' unit. Occasionally, I'll have a bit of fun throwing in a team of average Joes and get the odd scalp, but luckily I don't covet Majors, so I don't get wound up about it (or worse, I don't become part of the problem) when I cannot overcome the odds.
To be honest, FUMBBL as it is encourages and rewards this sort of behaviour. We play BB teams for longer than in any other format in our Ranked division; it stretches the ruleset to the nth degree, we covet fluff and longevity in a game that strains under those circumstances. Teams in R are often no longer a group of resource units that are used to provide a victory in a game of Blood Bowl; they're a storied team bringing glory via fame to be protected and nurtured. Some try to win a game of chess without losing a piece; or at least try to ensure their important pieces live to fight tomorrow. And that's OK, it's brilliant we can do something different here. We encourage this more than ever before in R, because in B it's that much trickier to do; it nudges the more pixel huggy to one place. We encourage it by calling our uncapped TV events 'Major', and by giving the advantage therein to coaches exhibiting this sort of behaviour. There is a group that think the things brilliant, and if you think the things brilliant, why not play the game? Again - awesome we have these things, terrific people enjoy it. I don't believe the Blood Bowling equivalent of the Ultimate Warrior Vs. Hulk Hogan (showing my age there) is coaching nirvana that should gather the top FUMBBL kudos, but if you do, we are encouraged to jack up on those steroids, put the ball up our ST5 AG6 Wardancers' jumpers, and 'coach' our way to site glory.
Is any of this an issue? I think it's only an issue if you make it an issue. If you dislike the behaviour, make a team, refuse to play such teams, and get joy out of Blood Bowl the way in which you choose. That's what Ranked is to me; a loose collection of coaches doing their own thing, and that's glorious. If you want to be competitive in a Major, or even enter a Major, you know the game you should play. What's the alternative? Either give the big rewards out in a different way to discourage such behaviour (and Christer likes uncapped TV Majors, so that's that), or make the staff make numerous borderline, contentious decisions day after day (leading to forum armageddon)? That's not desirable. Or, option three, play in one of the other divisions. FUMBBL's strength is that it caters to everyone in the world of Blood Bowl, so use our strength. Your world will continue to turn if you completely ignore what others are doing and the formats in which they do it, I promise you.
Lot of text that. Perhaps I should sum up in a TL:DR? I think perhaps:
TL:DR : It's alright. Just enjoy yourself and don't worry about other people. Just be cool.  |
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ErobererZim
Joined: Dec 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Mar 22, 2015 - 19:48 |
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For me, I think Elf picking Elf is, cause nearly every basher Team make the same boring Teambuild CPOMB or POMB em all, most with a spam of tacklers no reative or alternative buidling, stats be skipt for more Pomb and some with Guard. Elfs on mid/low TV have only a few players in an rooster and be counted out so fast. Only on higher TV there can get more competition cause more Stats and more Blodge Guys who can better and faster go for the Ball. And when I see there be Players with 4-5-6Teams in the finder where 2 be in your range there will ALWAYS only offer your Elfs the Megabashers and/or the min/max killers not the competition, where be in your TV range, FreeCas comon give them to me. I say give an Option on al Teams in near of the TV or let it. |
Last edited by ErobererZim on %b %22, %2015 - %19:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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Leilond
Joined: Jan 02, 2012
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Mar 22, 2015 - 19:49 |
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| Kam wrote: | | I find 100% normal that if you find playing versus... let's say... Slanns particularly interesting, you have a higher percentage of games versus this particular race, but what I don't understand is why you would only play games versus them? In Ranked. In a competitive division. |
Because I find playing certain match, extremely boring
Why in the damn hell I should have to use my free time to make something that I consider boring? |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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Mar 22, 2015 - 20:29 |
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That's a pretty strong post by Purplegoo. To everyone who only read the TL;DR I recommend going back and reading the whole thing.  Indeed building a team for Majors is what occasionally motivates me to try and pick and Elfbowl game, with limited success for I am impatient and have little tolerance for setbacks in the big "team building" endeavour. Also, I'll probably put my +Stat player on the line in order to win the game anyway and then my carefully picked Veteran elf coach opponent is going to pow him and perm him anyway.
I had much more fun in Ranked playing E.L.F., taking on all different kinds of opponents. Had a better record, too. The team I built with this even won a VET SMACK at one point. It's not really Majors material though. |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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Mar 22, 2015 - 20:33 |
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I love to play against some coaches. They are extremely fun. Why in the damn hell should I not play against them every 2 games? Because it's a damned competitive division!
But yeah, you seem to be right. Apparently, there's no problem with that kind of behaviour. They're no longer mocked. It's the new meta.
If that's the R you want, fine by me. But let me announce it here: since there is no problem with that, my next 100 ranked games will be against rookie stunty coaches. |
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GLN 17 is out!
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Mar 22, 2015 - 20:43 |
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Maybe you should spend your free time appreciating the breadth of experience you COULD be having on Fumbbl instead of being salty about available matchups.
Also, I hate to say this but this is a game, act like it. We aren't trying to divvy up the resources on a remote island and BB is the agreed upon method and the loser gets crushed by a rock.
Why is it a big deal if Ranked Elven coaches pick Elves with a higher frequency than you'd see in Box? Because this made up tourney that is purely for psyche benefits might somehow be tainted and the order of the universe is intractably altered from it's natural state? Come on, we are playing with inconsequential outcomes here. You get to tout your coaching/team building prowess and going up against some of the craziest built teams in the process.
Anybody who has played for a long enough time knows themselves and their abilities, knows their opponents, know when they screwed up, when a longshot calculated risk paid off and knows that if you put too much investment into the outcome rather than the process of the game, you'll get burnt out.
There's also something to be said for challenging yourself on purpose because you are comfortable with your abilities and the prospect of losing. I've had more fun with Gobbos in their Box run than any other team because the challenge is immense and the payoff for stealing pants is...well...pants and also the satisfaction of winning in spite of the odds.
I know I won't convince everyone to my way of thinking, but I want you to know that once I stopped concerning myself with winning and losing in absolute terms and looking at the matchups in a more narrative way, the game got way more enjoyable. I can't be bothered to write long winded histories and document in minutiae what happens to who (and with all my teams, can you blame me?) but thinking about this in a detached "And here is my story" kind of way has made the game way more enjoyable. A good story of triumph over long odds or a colossal blunder that snapped defeat from the jaws of victory keeps me coming back for more. |
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Leilond
Joined: Jan 02, 2012
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Mar 22, 2015 - 20:44 |
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| Kam wrote: | I love to play against some coaches. They are extremely fun. Why in the damn hell should I not play against them every 2 games? Because it's a damned competitive division!
But yeah, you seem to be right. Apparently, there's no problem with that kind of behaviour. They're no longer mocked. It's the new meta.
If that's the R you want, fine by me. But let me announce it here: since there is no problem with that, my next 100 ranked games will be against rookie stunty coaches. |
Until you use your time to have fun, I find nothing strange in it
What I consider difficult to understand, is people that ask to other people to use their time to pass a boring time, only to let those "sages" have their fun
Ranked is a particular type of "competitive" division
Black Box is another type
The first is made to let you choose your preferred oppontents. The second do not give you this opportunity
You're confusing the two I think |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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Mar 22, 2015 - 20:55 |
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Well, apparently, I'm the only one who thinks extreme picking is lame anymore, or that there's a difference between League and Ranked. Fine. I take note. Please, don't pay attention to my previous posts. |
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GLN 17 is out!
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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| Posted:
Mar 22, 2015 - 21:06 |
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Everybody wants to play against Elves. Just like everybody wants to bang supermodels.
But there is only so much supermodel to go around and they have their choice of anybody they want.
Why would the mess around with YOU when they can also get a supermodel?
Trolls are UGLY yo. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Mar 22, 2015 - 21:13 |
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| Kam wrote: | | Well, apparently, I'm the only one who thinks extreme picking is lame anymore, or that there's a difference between League and Ranked. Fine. I take note. Please, don't pay attention to my previous posts. |
Pickers have to live with the delusion that they might be good at the game and that's entertaining to the rest of us. |
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