koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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 Posted:
Mar 22, 2015 - 22:10 |
 
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I agree around 99% with Purplegoo. I think though that the lower limit on teams for Majors encourages picking your way to a big team if only to make the cut.
I'd say drop one of the Majors for another Fumbbl Cup style tournament where everyone gets in.
| Kam wrote: | | Well, apparently, I'm the only one who thinks extreme picking is lame anymore, or that there's a difference between League and Ranked. Fine. I take note. Please, don't pay attention to my previous posts. |
Destroying new coaches and running them off the site is pretty lame. But if experienced coaches want to accept your offer then that is what Ranked is all about. If people wanted to play any opponent they could play Box.
The difference between Ranked and League is that in League you do not have to pick so hard to be competitive. That is if your league allows picking at all. |
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neverdodge
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 22, 2015 - 22:28 |
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In my opinion, the main problem with the ranked system (or with any open league) is that the rewards you get for winning 1 game, is sometimes not worth the risk of seing your team getting destroyed.
In scheduled league at least you play vs opponents that played the same number of games as you, you play for competition, braging right or whatever.
But in ranked, there are people that don't care about losing or winning.
Now if you got beat hardly by a soft team, you might end up losing 7-0, but your team will not get hurt, while the soft team might not even get enough income to replace injured players |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Mar 22, 2015 - 22:49 |
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worlds most pointless thread
pickers gonna pick
the end |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Mar 23, 2015 - 00:06 |
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The thing is... this thread is a problem thread... it points out problems... it doesn't make suggestions for solutions.. it doesn't do it for the same reason the site doesn't implement any... any known possible 'solution' would be worse than the problem.
Also +1 to MrFurious.
Also I am pretty sure all tournaments except for the fumbbl cup are restricted in numbers. |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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Mar 23, 2015 - 00:26 |
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I have no doubt that my [R] elves have an inordinate overrepresentation of games vs elves and other soft teams. Similarly, my (low-bash) dorfs and (bashy) cdorfs have a similar underrepresentation of elves, zons, and stunties. That's just what you get in a system where you let people pick the matchup. If you don't want people to avoid certain kinds of matchup? Then don't let them pick the game.
I find that the people who are frustrated with elves not taking a challenge from pombtackle heavy AV9 teams tend to be the ones who don't actually put any elves on gamefinder. They're also the people who greenlight your flings, gobbos, or ogres.
As for solutions? Get rid of box and ranked. Eliminate picking and force diversity. A minimum of 1 team per race for everyone at every draw, and both races and specific matchups that have been played less often by a coach are upweighted in the draw. Such a system can still be gamed (TV sweetspotting), but not as obscenely, and this could still be addressed.
Main downside is that you can't play the type of game you want at the time you want it, but you could always do that in 'unranked' or 'league', and then not be eligible to enter the team in competitive tournaments. |
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neverdodge
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 23, 2015 - 00:56 |
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| Wreckage wrote: | The thing is... this thread is a problem thread... it points out problems... it doesn't make suggestions for solutions.. it doesn't do it for the same reason the site doesn't implement any... any known possible 'solution' would be worse than the problem.
Also +1 to MrFurious.
Also I am pretty sure all tournaments except for the fumbbl cup are restricted in numbers. |
I think the easier way to avoid it would be to simply to cap the injuries to BH, so the soft teams don't have to care about losing players on the long term.
The problem is, this changes the spririt of the game a lot |
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JmBeers
Joined: Aug 13, 2012
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Mar 23, 2015 - 02:07 |
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Personally I find super picking to be in poor taste of the game, However. Ranked (where I have played most of my games) Is all about finding a game you consider yourself to have a reasonable chance to win. For instance, I'm not taking haflings into a match with chaos dwarfs, its just not going to happen.
Suggestion? - put a block on plying the same type of a race within X number of games per team. If the block is 6+ games the coach will likely be forced to play a few sub optimal pillow fights.
Or in the case of the UI invitational, do what I did. Look at the list of Bash heavy team pool for the dark lead by Bash heavy coaches and take an agility team. Then laugh at there 100K wasted on claw and beat them by the first half. Clearly i'm over exaggerating, (just a little). But picking by elves crates a group of coaches that in turn do not know how to play against a bash team. They get smacked up and ejected from the tournament. They are penalized for their stinginess in the long run. Unfortunately this intern creates a group of coaches that only play bash on bash because they can't get game with elves. Those coaches are also typically beaten in tournaments when they come a crosse a well piloted agility team.
In summery. Great coaches don't need to excessively pick. Great coaches beat you with a competitive race despite the race there opponent is playing.
Bad coaches stay bad because they never push their boundaries. Let them have there pixie hugging fun. I'll beat them when It matters most. |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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Mar 23, 2015 - 02:42 |
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nothing wrong with the UI |
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Relezite
Joined: May 21, 2007
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Mar 23, 2015 - 02:47 |
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I'll get my elves torn to shreds in league happily because it's part of the long game, the end is in sight. I admit Im hesitant to do so in ranked because I'd like teams to be in shape for tournaments. Once in a tourney I'm cozy again with bashers because again, the end is in sight.
Also, for me personally, I think even mid power bash (say 5 mb, 2 po, 1 dp) and AV9 have a higher chance of leading to a game that gets boring fast. Sadly I think its part of the game's design that if bash is playing its ideal style, the opponent is likely clicking 'end turn' faster and faster. |
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keggiemckill
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
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Mar 23, 2015 - 04:42 |
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I think that Pickers pick opponents regardless of what race they use. The whole <Blank> picks <Blanks> is over done. I will say that my view has recently changed towards this whole thing. I used to complain, I used to care, I used to try and change the world. Now I could give a flying feck. I just enter more Tourneys with my Lizards and get all the team who normally avoid me. The bonus is that they aren't used to playing Bashy-Hybrids because they avoid them. I have more fun decimating their teams in Tourneys, than in one silly builder game. Otherwise I could no longer care. I search out the type of teams that I have trouble with and try to beat them. This makes it more fun for me. |
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Leilond
Joined: Jan 02, 2012
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Mar 23, 2015 - 07:25 |
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I really do not understand why someone want to force someone else toplay a match he doesn't want and doesn't like
For what you want, THER IS BLACK BOX
Ranked is designed to pick, to make people play the match they prefer, to avoid match they do not like
The isn't a problem to solve AT ALL. It's all as it should be, ranked to play exactly the match you prefer, Box to play randomly (most of all a random basher by the way) |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Mar 23, 2015 - 08:41 |
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| Arktoris wrote: | | nothing wrong with the UI |
Definitely not for the Charioteers. I specced the game vs lemf yesterday and it was glorious.  |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Mar 23, 2015 - 10:13 |
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| Relezite wrote: | | I'll get my elves torn to shreds in league happily because it's part of the long game, the end is in sight. I admit Im hesitant to do so in ranked because I'd like teams to be in shape for tournaments. Once in a tourney I'm cozy again with bashers because again, the end is in sight. |
Exactly. Build the team up then get them shredded while trying to achieve a goal rather than just another nothing game.
Though I suppose the goal might just be trying to build a massive team. 
I doubt that people really want to play teams that are overly blodged up and packing ag5 & 6s and a one turner.
Unless of course their main goal is not necessarily to win but to wipe out the freaks so as not to meet them again when it matters.
Seriously. No we're not going to play those nasty teams in open Ranked. We can play teams like that in Box, in tournaments and in leagues.
Ranked is for picking. If you choose to pick a tough or murderous opponent then good for you.  |
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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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Leilond
Joined: Jan 02, 2012
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Mar 23, 2015 - 10:34 |
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Collecting AG5 and oneturners is exactly the same thing that packing cpombers or block/tackle/guard/mighty blow/guarders
Exactly the same.
If you like the risk to see your hard worked team (that you like to use, a lot, for the fun it give you, in those 7-6 matches) wiped out from some nasty bashers, do not pick or, more simply, run the box
If you like the risk, throw your team in the face of pombers, there are plenty of them, and let others play other game types without complain or, worse, blame them. |
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King_Ghidra
Joined: Sep 14, 2009
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Mar 23, 2015 - 10:46 |
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Given that I weighed in on the original topic I might as well add the things about this that really got on my nerves.
The only thing that matters here is what the site rules allow. If the principle is simply about ethics then the discussion is pointless, and it can be put in the trash with the T16 fouling discussion and its ilk. But in that thread several points relating to the site rules were brought up, and Happygrue claimed teams have been thrown out of majors, in the new gamefinder era, for picking. Now if that is truly the case (and i'd love to know who those teams were) then it seems to me the rules should be made clearer, because from my reading of them right now, it's not possible to break the rules of ranked or the site if you are using the gf and not playing the same opponent repeatedly.
Now the second thing which really got my goat was that we have this vague 'naming and shaming' thing that prevents us calling out the members of the community for, well, anything the admins decide on any given day, but yet here we had a thread in which at least two posters were marching around calling out players for completely legal activities and going as far as to suggest they should be thrown out of a tournament. How is this acceptable? That is exactly the kind of toxic posting that the 'naming and shaming' principle exists to discourage. If the coaches accused have done nothing wrong, why aren't the admins sticking up for them and admonishing the accusers? |
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