| Poll |
| What do you get a High Elf thrower who rolls doubles after getting strong arm? |
| Guard |
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20% |
[ 8 ] |
| Mighty Blow |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| Stand Firm |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Piling On |
|
20% |
[ 8 ] |
| Block |
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17% |
[ 7 ] |
| Something Else |
|
35% |
[ 14 ] |
| Pie! |
|
5% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 40 |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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 Posted:
Apr 23, 2015 - 19:48 |
 
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lol...
I think most people are familiar with the elven stall. It's not ineffective, but still reliant on surviving the attrition when you play bash.
Block is fine, dodge too, sure hands would be my choice though, but you kind of want all 3 in some order anyway. |
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CanvasBack
Joined: Jan 15, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2015 - 20:02 |
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Well, when I haven't had this skill set I've been bashed by bashing teams and now that I have it I'll probably still be bashed by bashing teams. Winning any game is pretty dependent on how well your players stand up to the opponent's blocking, right? |
_________________
"When you have shot and killed a man you have in some measure clarified your attitude toward him. You have given a definite answer to a definite problem. For better or worse you have acted decisively. In a way, the next move is up to him." R.A. Lafferty |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2015 - 20:04 |
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I'm not talking about your thrower getting hit, I'm talking about the players you have down field while he's waiting for the opening. His job is to pick up the ball, waste some time, then move up and pass it.
He's not getting hit as much as the rest of the team, so block on him is not as necessary as other skills he needs to do his job. Sure hands for sure, and dodge next because it helps him positionally more than block does.
If you're interested in using him as a sweeper on defense, and keeping him alive longer you should have taken wrestle anyway. |
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CanvasBack
Joined: Jan 15, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2015 - 20:15 |
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Dear licker,
I am sorry that I only have 11 elves on my team, one of whom is missing the next game. This is not ideal I know, I should have not allowed the 6 permanent injuries in the past 15 games to happen. But there it is, I only have eleven guys on my squad right now with 30k in the bank. Meaning, I have to play the thrower on defense. The client will simply not allow me to field ten. How rude right?
It seems to me however that if I give this guy wrestle and used it, he would be on the ground and probably fouled by my opponent, perhaps to death.
Again, having him play on defense is not so much a choice I make as one the rules sort of dictate. And with block, if he has to use it, he remains standing at least.
Kindly,
CB |
_________________
"When you have shot and killed a man you have in some measure clarified your attitude toward him. You have given a definite answer to a definite problem. For better or worse you have acted decisively. In a way, the next move is up to him." R.A. Lafferty |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2015 - 20:49 |
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Yeah, that's the point, you're safer on the ground usually than you are standing up.
And so what if he plays defense? Seriously, pixel hugging seems to be warping your senses. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2015 - 20:50 |
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Retire. |
_________________
Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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CanvasBack
Joined: Jan 15, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2015 - 20:54 |
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Pixel hugging? Right... |
_________________
"When you have shot and killed a man you have in some measure clarified your attitude toward him. You have given a definite answer to a definite problem. For better or worse you have acted decisively. In a way, the next move is up to him." R.A. Lafferty |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2015 - 22:04 |
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You're playing a very different version of elves than I am.
Of course you play your thrower on defense, why wouldn't you want a sure hands blodger around?
Well, I suppose if you didn't build him with sure hands and blodge, you might not want to, but that's precisely why the good players responding to your skill thread are suggesting that you do.
Great QBs win in the NFL, but in bloodbowl, great defense wins games... well that and piling on. |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2015 - 23:18 |
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Heh, so... take Piling On, right? 
Here's how you use a SH/Blodge Thrower in on Defense...1) He stays back, and assists or plays the 2nd man in a double-deep D setup. He's only a blodger at the start, but one you want to protect. Like a Sweeper, he stays ~toward~ the middle so he can respond in either direction the ball moves, wherever needed.
2) Other players will knock the ball loose - that's the plan, anyway.
3) When they do, then he Dodges in, scoops the ball w/ Ag 4 SH, and Dodges out again to Pass the ball to where it's safe - maybe forward for a quick score, maybe across the field behind a safe screen, maybe back out of MA range, maybe a "punt" to empty field one direction or another just to kill time. No Team RR should be needed, that's saved for the initial blitz or final catch, etc.
4) Once that happens, the opposition can either blitz him punitively, OR chase the ball. So he's usually safe, or safer than most.
No other player can do that with built-in RR's for the key actions - the Pickup, the Pass. He helps do what +Ag does best - capitalize on a mistake, a loose ball, make the defensive score look easy. |
_________________
Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2015 - 23:40 |
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Yes, but you don't need block for any of that 
Which is why I wouldn't take block early on said player, I'd take sure hands and then dodge. |
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CanvasBack
Joined: Jan 15, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 23, 2015 - 23:53 |
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I'll probably take sure hands next if he lives but it seems like a pretty big IF. I was hoping the AG 5 blitzer could be the retriever but that hasn't been going very well. |
_________________
"When you have shot and killed a man you have in some measure clarified your attitude toward him. You have given a definite answer to a definite problem. For better or worse you have acted decisively. In a way, the next move is up to him." R.A. Lafferty |
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seanh1986
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 24, 2015 - 00:35 |
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Smeat wrote a very nice write-up, it's great advice on how to use him defensively.
I will add that when you are being bashed and you have ~2-3 turns to score to turn a loss into a tie or a tie into a win... That's when you want the 'dedicated thrower'... Accurate + Strong Arm make him effective in that situation... It's also handy if you're in a tournament and win the toss in OT when you're outnumbered... Just get a guy to the end zone and your thrower will get it there for the 2+ catch to win, etc.
What would make him just as effective and better in many other situations is a +Ag roll ... That helps the long bomb when you need it and the nasty pickups.
The built-in safe-throw (and obviously pass) is what makes the 'long bomb' strategy somewhat effective.
I'm in a similar situation with one of my WE throwers. I arguably made a poor choice with safe throw when I chose it... It allows for that passing game more reliably but it prevented my 6 ag player from getting dodge or sure hands, both skills he needs far more often than safe throw. |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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| Posted:
Apr 24, 2015 - 01:42 |
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| footballolb16 wrote: | | I'm in a similar situation with one of my WE throwers. I arguably made a poor choice with safe throw when I chose it... It allows for that passing game more reliably but it prevented my 6 ag player from getting dodge or sure hands, both skills he needs far more often than safe throw. |
Fantastic example of when taking a stat instead of a core skill, then following up with a sub-par skill choice has really hurt the team. (I'm only agreeing with you here footballolb16)
I mean, you have a 7/3/5/7 guy already, AG6 isn't the right call. This young lady was an unholy terror on the pitch, and she would have been even better had she been built on a thrower chassis.
7/3/5/7 pass, sure hands, dodge, leap, block = what elf dreams are made of, a game-changing player.
7/3/6/7 pass, safe throw, sure hands, dodge = just won't have the same impact.
You turn down doubles on elf throwers. Leap is better than AG6. This thread contains great examples of why this is true. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 24, 2015 - 03:13 |
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He didn't make a mistake with the stat, he made the mistake with safe throw... |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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| Posted:
Apr 24, 2015 - 04:03 |
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| licker wrote: | | He didn't make a mistake with the stat, he made the mistake with safe throw... |
I'd debate that point, but we already did in another thread.
+AG +AG Dodge Block Leap is not a bad player. I just prefer to have sure hands in there sometime before legend. I also think delaying blodge until 51spp will shorten his career more often than not.
I try not to make a habit of having 170tv guys running around on my teams with neither block nor dodge. Sort of asking for trouble, and shouldn't be at all shocked when he leaves the pitch.
+AG +AG Dodge Block Leap also costs 230tv
+AG Sure Hands Dodge Block Leap is only 210tv
Small difference? Sure. Insignificant when I also think the value of the players is comparable? Not in my opinion. |
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