FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

albinv

Joined: Sep 15, 2012

Posted: Apr 23, 2015 - 10:35

harvestmouse wrote:

I'd be careful about some of the advice you're getting here. If you don't know what you doing you'll end up breaking the site rules.

Uff - how so?

Smeat

Joined: Nov 19, 2006

Posted: Apr 23, 2015 - 10:39

Say what you mean, you're only confusing things.

By site rules, you're not allowed to ride with multiple j-men while you stockpile massive amounts of cash, but it's not a tightly defined thing. Don't get more than 3 j-men if you have the cash to replace the 4th, and get all real players when you can get 12 players, and you'll be fine.

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Leilond

Joined: Jan 02, 2012

Posted: Apr 23, 2015 - 10:43

Keep playing and with the team you so nicesly and fluffy created

Do not "minmax" it you're having fun with it and you're not too concearned with "records" and "rankings"

Sure some skills look suboptimal, but I'm the worst minmaxer optimizer out there (I play dark elf with two runners) and I perfectly understand the fun of a succesfull dump-off, even it it make you lose the match every other match

Do the things you think is more fun, not the think that make your team stronger, unless the two things go in the same direction. Some time and for someone, stronger team means nicer, some times means more boring. Carefull with your choices then, you'll end up with a team that you do not like anymore

albinv

Joined: Sep 15, 2012

Posted: Apr 23, 2015 - 10:45

Never knew about the journeyman rules i confess. Luckily i havent played many AV7 races so far, so didnt have a chance to break it.

harvestmouse

Joined: May 13, 2007

Posted: Apr 23, 2015 - 10:48

Smeat wrote:

Don't replace the j-men until you have enough for 12 players - unless one of them gets some spp, then hire that one. The idea is to save up money for positionals in case you lose someone special, and to get a bench.

Taking this advice literally could easily break the site rules. I really dislike the idea of getting new players uber gaming, it could put them off more than put them on. However you need to be more specific. Are we talking linemen or positionals? 4 linemen are 280k, that's enough to warrant worry. If he then took the Sage's advice

the_Sage wrote:

#1 should retire, #4 should retire. #9 and 13 ideally also, but not in as much of a hurry.
#5, and especially #12 are good reasons to keep the team. Oneturners win tournaments. #8 is great too.

I'd say replace the dancer, fire the thrower, and phase out the others if your cash balance allows. Treasure that #12.

Have a look at this page.

If he took both advice (whilst playing with less than 11), he'd definitely break the site rules as one of those players is healthy.

Remember this fellow doesn't have the experience you guys have. Set him on the right road and linking the help guide as the Sage did. Also pointing out the wasted skills the dangers of playing with injured players (as a few of you have done) is more than enough in my opinion.

DukeTyrion

Joined: Feb 18, 2004

Posted: Apr 23, 2015 - 10:55

The team has some nice players, so I would stick with it.

There are a few players that really need to go though.

-AV Thrower, is expensive and his skills are not that great
-AG rookie Lineman, journeyman would do the job as well, or better
-St -AV Catcher, one turner is nice, but this one is expensive, injured and not something that you want to be relying on this early to improve your game play.

I would also recommend that your future Wardancers either take Wrestle / Strip Ball, or Wrestle / Tackle.

Some nice players on the team though, especially the Tree and MA catcher.

harvestmouse

Joined: May 13, 2007

Posted: Apr 23, 2015 - 10:56

Smeat wrote:

Say what you mean, you're only confusing things.

By site rules, you're not allowed to ride with multiple j-men while you stockpile massive amounts of cash, but it's not a tightly defined thing. Don't get more than 3 j-men if you have the cash to replace the 4th, and get all real players when you can get 12 players, and you'll be fine.

I cannot state whether that is true or not now, however when I was a member of staff this would definitely not have been the case.

Roland

Joined: May 12, 2004

Posted: Apr 23, 2015 - 10:58

DukeTyrion wrote:

The team has some nice players, so I would stick with it.

There are a few players that really need to go though.

-AV Thrower, is expensive and his skills are not that great
-AG rookie Lineman, journeyman would do the job as well, or better
-St -AV Catcher, one turner is nice, but this one is expensive, injured and not something that you want to be relying on this early to improve your game play.

I would also recommend that your future Wardancers either take Wrestle / Strip Ball, or Wrestle / Tackle.

Some nice players on the team though, especially the Tree and MA catcher.

I'd keep the st1 catcher though.

the_Sage

Joined: Jan 13, 2011

Posted: Apr 23, 2015 - 11:07

Far as I understand it (which is deliberately incomplete), you should not both have less than 11 real players, and save up more money than you would need in order to
A) replace all your J-men with real linos +
B) have reserves to replace your most expensive positional twice

So if you have 8 real players and 3 j-men, your max bank would be 3*70+2*120=450, at which point you must hire players #9,#10,and#11 for 210, leaving you with 11 players and a treasury of 240k (2 treemen).

I believe the reason it works like this, is that without being allowed to save this much, you would be continually forced to fill up to 11 from the 240 which you set aside to replace treemen/dancers, and as a result you would keep playing with 1-2 j-men, and never break out of that cycle.

I'll admit that I forgot the part about about firing healthy players, though if I were an admin I would look a lot less harshly on firing due to poor skill choices, than firing due to 'too many SPPs' and/or cycling for a double.

DukeTyrion

Joined: Feb 18, 2004

Posted: Apr 23, 2015 - 11:28

the_Sage wrote:

Far as I understand it (which is deliberately incomplete), you should not both have less than 11 real players, and save up more money than you would need in order to
A) replace all your J-men with real linos +
B) have reserves to replace your most expensive positional twice

So if you have 8 real players and 3 j-men, your max bank would be 3*70+2*120=450, at which point you must hire players #9,#10,and#11 for 210, leaving you with 11 players and a treasury of 240k (2 treemen).

I believe the reason it works like this, is that without being allowed to save this much, you would be continually forced to fill up to 11 from the 240 which you set aside to replace treemen/dancers, and as a result you would keep playing with 1-2 j-men, and never break out of that cycle.

I'll admit that I forgot the part about about firing healthy players, though if I were an admin I would look a lot less harshly on firing due to poor skill choices, than firing due to 'too many SPPs' and/or cycling for a double.

I think it's B.

So a Wood Elf team with 10 players, could hold up to 280k (2 x 140k) before having to bite the bullet and get that 11th player.

Taking A into account, I don't think a team would be allowed to drop to 1 active player and 10 journeymen with 690k in the bank.

koadah

Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Posted: Apr 23, 2015 - 11:36

There is no reason to retire the team. If you want to start a new Wood elf then fine do that. The new team will probably end up being better because you now have more knowledge and experience. You should be making fewer poor skill choices and hopefully be better at keeping players alive.

My take on the journeyman rule is don't buy a lino unless you would still have enough left to buy two wardancers. And if you have 10 men don't buy a lino to get to 11 men. Wait until you can afford two to get to twelve men. That is much worse than Harvestmouse's 280k.

If that is really against the rules then personally I would say to stick to the [L]eague division where it would not be enforced. But really I don't think that many people would report you. Except maybe Harvestmouse. Wink

The admins get to use their discretion and I hear that they would give you a warning first so personally I would not worry with wood elves. If you were running CPOMB chaos there would be a petition to get your team deleted. Twisted Evil

IMO people are telling the guy how to play the team. Not building them this way is going to be difficult and frustrating. Elves need to watch their cash much more than most other popular teams. Elves are generally harder for newer coaches to handle anyway. Making it even harder just means that we end up with yet more CPOMB, orcs & dwarves.

I'm sure that a lot of coaches groaned they heard that C3I2 had got you. Wink

Oh well, if it was all you could get...

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akaRenton

Joined: Apr 15, 2008

Posted: Apr 23, 2015 - 12:11

Don't retire them, and build them how you want. Yes some of the skill choices aren't what most would consider optimal, but who cares. Have fun with them. Besides you can have a hell of a lot of teams before you run out of space, so why delete/retire? Just set them to one side and come back to them when you want to again if you aren't enjoying them as much.

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harvestmouse

Joined: May 13, 2007

Posted: Apr 23, 2015 - 12:12

the_Sage wrote:

Far as I understand it (which is deliberately incomplete), you should not both have less than 11 real players, and save up more money than you would need in order to
A) replace all your J-men with real linos +
B) have reserves to replace your most expensive positional twice

So if you have 8 real players and 3 j-men, your max bank would be 3*70+2*120=450, at which point you must hire players #9,#10,and#11 for 210, leaving you with 11 players and a treasury of 240k (2 treemen).

It's either/or, not both!! 450k would definitely land you in hot water. So 240k for 2 positionals or 210k for 3 linos. Both of these are a rule of thumb, but you have a definitive figure there that you needn't go over.

280k would be over that amount and certainly shouldn't be given as advice. That is all I am saying. I really don't want to be part of this topic as I really find giving a new player advice on the art of playing up to the line (FUMBBL rules) using a game rule as it was not intended but beneficial, really unappetizing. The whole topic and use is extremely damaging to the site.

the_Sage wrote:

I'll admit that I forgot the part about about firing healthy players, though if I were an admin I would look a lot less harshly on firing due to poor skill choices, than firing due to 'too many SPPs' and/or cycling for a double.

I would think that would be the case, however it is a rule breach and shouldn't be recommended. The advice you gave him was fine. However with a new player, things should be made clear. That he shouldn't fire healthy players and use JM in their stead. Also that if used with Smeat's advice, this would definitely be breaking the rules.

I do agree though that I think in this case the staff would look less harshly on him.

Leilond

Joined: Jan 02, 2012

Posted: Apr 23, 2015 - 12:18

If you have 280k, buy a line to replace a perm, end of the problem
Simple, playing the game as it was intended, stay in the rules, without some complicate try to exploit the system

the_Sage

Joined: Jan 13, 2011

Posted: Apr 23, 2015 - 12:33

OK, I see your take on this. That's different from what I understood. Thing is, if you have 3 j-men on an expensive av7 team like woodies, and you buy a single lino whenever you hit some number (for instance 240k), chances are you will never stop having j-men in the first place. So I would want to save up to replace the lot of them (and not go completely bankrupt when I do).

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