the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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 Posted:
May 28, 2015 - 09:10 |
 
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IMO they should be either AV8 (maybe at the same cost, with no shadowing?), or MA7 at 100k (to make shadowing better).
| Wuhan wrote: | | Doesn't anyone have any Star assassins? |
Maybe you missed my previous post, but I suppose this guy qualifies. I still think assassins aren't worth it from a power gamer perspective, and neither are AG6s usually, but I like him. =D |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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May 28, 2015 - 16:44 |
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AG6 is funny, but it does feel more lacking on MA6 players. I would take it myself, but I wouldn't really fault anyone for going AG5+leap in it's place.
Going AG6+leap is a travesty though 
The real issue with assassins is that they are pro elf linemen, and pro elf linemen stink, other than that they are cheaper (and rightly so) than other elf linemen. Shadowing is such a 'meh' skill, since anyone slower than MA6 probably will just punch you anyway, and anyone faster has decent enough odds to pull away. You need to add tackle and even diving tackle, and you also need to add blodge and side step, and it's just a lot of skills to make a bad player into a mediocre player.
Fluff wise, playing with assassins, and bloating up elf teams if cool. It will hurt your win%, which is what most people in tactics and strategy are concerned with. |
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juck101
Joined: Nov 16, 2003
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Jun 04, 2015 - 13:36 |
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I imagine this has been said already: av7 is terrible on an av8 team, they cost a lot, shadow needs at least ma7 to be worth it, you dont get to push up on a fail. Oh they are just a loooooong way down the purchase list which also doesn't hurt.
However jump up and multiple block is totally great. Free shadow is fun if you can blodge them to stay upright.
Oh elves are broken with guard. Hes also a poor guard which is another bad point |
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Wizfall
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
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Jun 06, 2015 - 12:38 |
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Assassins are so amazing i did no know a single legend assassin.
On the other i'm even aware of a snotling legend, in the box moreover !
That say a lot about assassins |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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Jun 06, 2015 - 14:35 |
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| Wizfall wrote: | Assassins are so amazing i did no know a single legend assassin.
On the other i'm even aware of a snotling legend, in the box moreover !
That say a lot about assassins |
I simply says people don't play with sins, aka nothing more or nothing less than what's they've been saying in this topic. 
The Box All-Time Top Stars Sins list speaks for itself. Only 10 sins have made it past 31 SPP ever in the Box. And that simply says that 1) people don't use them or 2) they don't try to skill them.
I'm not gonna give my opinion on Sins - I'm really bad with elfs anyway - however, would people have a different opinion about sins if they were no longer considering them as an expensive stab machine but were actually trying to skill them and make good use of their starting skill: Shadowing? Would a Blodge / SS / DT Shadower be worth his TV? |
_________________
GLN 17 is out!
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juck101
Joined: Nov 16, 2003
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Jun 06, 2015 - 16:26 |
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Yes. Blodge basics for survival and with two or three compliment skills to shadow become good/great. DT tackle makes sense to glue things and stab them next turn. Ju is fun and few people Remember ju stab is an action that can't turn you over.
Shadow is excellent for odd blocks assists your opponent might set up in their own turn. St3 shadow is kinda cool for getting free Movement by shadowing a follow up to a block in your opponents turn. Still depsite this great passive he still probably wants to benefit by taking an av stab instead, which sucks as you gain less positional benefit if you don't succeed (which is rare). Guard shadow blodge is vivable but really it's expensive for a really odd trick.
Only the multiblock, ju, for 130k is good value. Add block dodge to keep your asset and 170 just sounds bloat for a long term piece |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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Jun 06, 2015 - 21:53 |
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I'm just ignoring the post above this one, because some fruit is too low hanging to pick.
| Kam wrote: | | Would a Blodge / SS / DT Shadower be worth his TV? |
A blodge/SS DT assassin would be a bad idea because:
1. He's gonna cost 170tv, which is 10tv more than a Blodge/SS/DT Blitzer.
2. He's 7AV compared to that same blitzer at 8AV
3. He's 6MA compared to that same blitzer at 7MA
4. He needs 51spp to get those skills versus 31 for that blitzer
5. He's a player predicated on basing opponents with AV7
6. It's actually a pretty big pain in the butt feeding 51SPP to a MA6 non-blodger when you have MA7 blodgers coming out of your backside. That's seventeen touchdowns using a sub-par carrier, and 51spp taken away from better pieces.
Refer to my original post in this thread if your response to this is "but I can have 4 blitzers AND an assassin." The question isn't "is the assassin good", but "is the assassin better than the witch elf, runner, or a 6/3/4/8 lineman.
Oh, and if assassins were AV8, I would probably use one, because you know what? Stab and Shadowing are probably worth 20tv. But AV is pretty important. See: Skaven Renegade. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Jun 07, 2015 - 05:28 |
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Skaven Renegade is the fastest player on the team though. |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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Jun 07, 2015 - 05:31 |
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I think he's a lot better on pact than an assassin would be on DE... but I still don't use the renegade, and neither do most players who aren't playing pact for the fluff. Goblin? Sure. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Jun 07, 2015 - 05:38 |
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I'm not going to look, but I can't see why you wouldn't play with the rat. That speed actually does matter. |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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Jun 07, 2015 - 06:52 |
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AV7 has a 58%/42% armor break chance with MB/Non-MB. That's compared to 42%/28% for AV8
14-16% greater chance of armor break is a pretty big deal, meaning you pretty much have to shield him from blitzes. He is AG3, so he's not a great BC, he can't dodge away from contact reliably, and he has a hard time using his speed without the agility to go with it.
He's the fastest player on the team, but he's pretty limited, especially with the elf being that much better of a carrier. 7/3/3/7 can be useful, but he's hardly a norse runner or ghoul who can blodge up fast and take sidestep.
You see them all the time on ranked teams, especially the 3 big version with all six specials. Where you don't see them is box, where min-max competitive teams leave them on the sideline in favor of more block/guard marauders or clawpombers.
His best role is probably wrackle sweeper, and if you're determined to use one, this is not a bad way to keep him out of the way. MA7 is obviously much better than MA6 in this role, so if you do like to keep a player back on defense, he's fine in that role. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Jun 07, 2015 - 08:11 |
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min/max stupidity aside...
the rat is useful |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Jun 07, 2015 - 09:22 |
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With the animosity I can see that having an extra roll to even do a handoff to a skaven is another downer to have them. Though for Underworld the rats are much more needed. |
_________________
“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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BillBrasky
Joined: Feb 15, 2005
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Jun 07, 2015 - 10:31 |
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My new Quest is found!
Make the 1st Box Assassin Legend!
(Thanks) |
Last edited by BillBrasky on %b %07, %2015 - %10:%Jun; edited 1 time in total |
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Wizfall
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
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| Posted:
Jun 07, 2015 - 10:34 |
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| BillBrasky wrote: | My new Quest is found!
Make the 1st Box Assassin! |
You mean the first legend assassin i guess.
Edit : no xtra roll to hand off to a skaven renegade, unless it is the DE or gob doing it.
Still another downside though i agree. |
Last edited by Wizfall on %b %07, %2015 - %10:%Jun; edited 1 time in total |
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