WolfyDan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
May 27, 2015 - 18:15 |
 
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | It's a +ST/MB Thrower instead of a +ST/MB Lino. Don't be disingenuous. |
As ever, Jimmy is always right. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
May 27, 2015 - 18:16 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | It's a +ST/MB Thrower instead of a +ST/MB Lino. Don't be disingenuous. |
Unlikely that the lino got the same spp the thrower got, because the lino would not have been running around with ball.
It's not disingenuous at all. But even if the +ST came on a lineelf, now you have a +ST guard line elf.
That's better than this thrower build as well.
| Wreckage wrote: | Licker, now I see why your response confused me. In the skaven thread you explained that people should do use a thrower.
Oh well, I suppose if I would use a) a skaven thrower and b) not just for Leader, there would be little point in getting +ST on him because he has great need in obtaining skills that turn him into a decent enough passer to actually interact with the team.
With the Elves on the other hand I'm thinking this:
The passer is as good of a carrier as pretty much anyone.
St4 makes him just a regular elf carrier who happens to be able to throw passes and also happens to not totally suck at it.
So.. if I would look at such a guy I envision kind of the equivalent to a sturdy artillery that can't be damaged. It's essentially walking around, stalling, with the ball on it as some sort of super tank, ready to just toss it to somebody else when things get dicey.
Obviously as could probably gather from the other thread, I totally agree with you that speed and agility are absolutely preferable on a carrier.
Yet the guy does have a st4 thrower already, there is no point in lamenting broken eggs and I think it's a good player, especially when he happens to make it to Blodge.
Honestly, I think although I don't really disagree with anything you said Licker, I'd take the +st too.
It's probably the weakest +st to have on an elvish team: On any other player you'd take it for its active effect, while on a passer you essentially only take it for the passive effect and that is neglectable half of the game (ie. when you don't carry).
Yet it's still just completely worth it. You have an unstoppable force that can dodge, block, move and pass and provides your elvish team with something it dearly needs: More strength. |
You have to understand that elf throwers are completely different from (most) throwers on other teams. The KEY skill for any starting thrower/runner is actually sure hands, not pass. Since no elf thrower starts with it, and you need to take it on your eventual ball retriever/carrier, it's simply better on a player who either starts with block or dodge (or both) and who is faster to begin with.
Of course you take +ST on your elf team (other than maybe WE catchers, though it's hard to pass on them). The problem is exactly what you said though. The Thrower is the WORST place to wind up with it. As you later explained, you don't want to use this guy as a blitzer, he doesn't really have room for the skills you would like to make him a blitzer. He needs blodge/sure hands, he probably takes side step, and now you're up to 76 and legend for taking tackle or strip, depending on if you skipped side step. Honestly this isn't about saving TV, this is about having a crappy ball carrier, because he's slow, a crappy thrower, because you didn't take any skills to make him a better passer, and a crappy blitzer because he is slow and doesn't have tackle/wrestle/strip.
So yes, if you took a thrower, and you rolled +ST on him, you have to take it. But now you have a USELESS player.
In the context of what you could have had if you had gotten +ST on any other player on your roster.
Oh, and he's a gigantic TV sink too.
If you want a passer you take passing skills, you take accurate, you take strong arm, you don't care about blodge because the guy isn't supposed to be holding the ball and getting hit. Yeah, he's a liability on defense, which is why most coaches don't make a player like that (or can play with a 13+ man roster). If you don't want to play with a passer, then you DON'T HIRE A THROWER.
They are useless. |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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| Posted:
May 27, 2015 - 18:27 |
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My perfect st4 HE thrower would probably look like this:
Safe Throw, Pass, +ST, Dodge, Sure Hands, Block, Accurate, Sidestep (or even better +ma or ag+ or both and skip accurate too).
edit: Oddly I find taking Sure Feet over SS very appealing aswell. The +ST is the only thing that would make me hesitate as most of the time I'm probably better off just standing where I am and taking a protected hit rather than risking the turnover chance that I'd probably gladly risk on a weaker player in exchange for a better position.
I'm not big on the whole mixing sacker&carrier to begin with. The only exception are maybe pact where the darkelf is the only one who can suitably fulfill both roles. I suppose it can be good to save some TV but then again: Keeping the carrier out of harms way is critical for the own offense to succeed. Unless you have a back-up. But if you do, your TV is again maybe not managed as well as it could be. |
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