Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
|
 Posted:
Jun 04, 2015 - 16:15 |
 
|
| markor wrote: | | You, don't have to tell me, I was reading the thread - I'm glad that my evangelism has converted the heathen Calcium to Passing Touchdownism. I also noticed that RatSalad seems to be a much more successful Wood Elf coach than me, and seems (from his match reports) to use much more stalling/grinding than I do. This is not a criticism of him, I enjoyed his account of his games and they seemed to be very even-handed. |
There is a time and a place for everything. This team is in low-tv blackbox, with a lucky double on a wardancer and a treeman. My first opponents generally had fewer mighty blow. In that situation, trading player removals via MB blitzes, pushing oppoenents into range of the treeman, trapping them there and allowing for follow-up MB blocks works best. Hanging the non-mighty blow wardancer back at my own endzone with the ball forces oppoenents to cover all four quadrants of the pitch, opening up the field.
If the opponent is losing 1-0 and does not chase the wardancer, and simply waits at midfield for the ball, I'm going to let him ignore the ball and play the positional blocking game. There's no pressure for me to score, as he can't win if he doesn't get the ball back anyway.
Trying a pass for a second score in that situation is dumb. This team is playing to win, not to teambuild or play a pretty game of bloodbowl. My ranked teams don't always do this, but this team does.
| koadah wrote: | Only one elf team made Top 30 last time out.
We're rooting for ya Rat  |
I don't think there's much chance of these wood elves winning a blackbox sprint. With only five healthy elves remaining, reaching 1450tv would be an accomplishment unto itself.
I can't say if this level of attrition is normal, but it was what was expected. Once the team stops winning 75% of their games, it's going to be interesting to see if I'm able to even keep the team going. |
|
|
Timetis
Joined: Mar 31, 2014
|
| Posted:
Jun 04, 2015 - 16:21 |
|
| koadah wrote: |
Only one elf team made Top 30 last time out.
We're rooting for ya Rat |
As the proud owner of that one elf team (and a few others) in the box, my opinion is that even past 20/30 games it doesn't change that much (my proelves are at 48 games atm, helves at 34). Yes, there's way more tackle/mb/po, but you should have a solid core of blodge and fend to defend against that.
Heck, most of the times I lose with the elfs it's versus agility teams.
I got very lucky in the first few games; starting can be rough (my welves are testament to that), and I suppose rebuilding is going to be very challenging too if you ever get all of them smashed. I do hope to stick to the teams though.
So far, my elfing in the box has gone way better than playing humans (win-wise).
Anyhow, hoping to encourage some others to join in; once you get past the starting phase, you should have a rocksolid elf team to take on the slow lowdown bashers! |
|
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jun 04, 2015 - 17:00 |
|
| Rat_Salat wrote: |
| koadah wrote: | Only one elf team made Top 30 last time out.
We're rooting for ya Rat |
I don't think there's much chance of these wood elves winning a blackbox sprint. With only five healthy elves remaining, reaching 1450tv would be an accomplishment unto itself.
I can't say if this level of attrition is normal, but it was what was expected. Once the team stops winning 75% of their games, it's going to be interesting to see if I'm able to even keep the team going. |
Oh come on. Where is that positive spirit?
How about we call it the Rat Agile Challenge
You can finish above a bunch of wussy elves can't you?
You only need to win one more game to make the top five. 
Keep your TV up. Most of those others will never do 16 games.  |
_________________
[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
|
Fingard
Joined: Oct 07, 2008
|
| Posted:
Jun 04, 2015 - 17:02 |
|
| Rat_Salat wrote: | | Fingard wrote: | | I think you are left with too many loners. |
This part of my hypothesis at least, has been proven true thus far. It's a very small sample, but a much higher attrition rate than I see in ranked, due to facing a little more mighty blow than I normally would at 1000-1350tv
| Fingard wrote: | | I expect your win ratio to drop in next games, unless you're lucky with match-ups. |
I also expect the win rate to drop as I face more bash.
| Fingard wrote: | If I were you, I'd try to buy a thrower and skill him with leader, while firing a reroll.
2 rerolls are not worth their TV if you can use them only with 4/5 players (even if 2 are the dancers). |
I tried to hire a thrower to give him leader. He died. It would have been my third reroll, though. Two isn't enough when you need to leap on a 3 and 1D pow for wins. |
Watching again your roster, I must say I'd retire the team indeed
The way it is now, it's not "TV optimized": at 1.3K you need at least a crucial stat increase to keep being competitive with we (+ma tree, +ag or +st dancer, +ma catcher...).
But I see the sense of your experiment.
Good luck! |
|
|
Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jun 11, 2015 - 06:03 |
|
Game Eleven - Charisme et Samba !! - Humans - fxiii - Legend (175.29)
Humans... the bane of my elf existence. My [R] Woodies are an unspectacular 8/1/7 against them, and I'm willing to bet most of those 8 were pretty fat cherries. These ones are coached by fxiii, a legend coach I've never played. He's got that blasted sure hands thrower, but to my eyes the team looks very beatable. Strong Arm/Dodge Thrower, Dirty Player Lineman, Block/Sprint/Sure Feet Catcher, and only two blitzers... one with Tackle/Guard, and the other with +ST, Mighty Blow, and -av. We got this
Result - 2-1 Humans
We don't got this. 6 loners isn't working. He's carrying with the catcher, and the leaping strip ball into the cage ends up in a bothdown. Fxiii skillfully surfs the strip baller, and with very little chance of breaking the cage, the elves play for the second half. Quick snap on turn 8 leads to a one-turn touchdown from the +MA wardancer. The grab tree pays off again. We go into the second half tied 1-1 and feeling good.
We start killing time, trading mighty blow blitzes and tree shots. It's pretty even on turn 6 with each of us having 3 out when disaster strikes. Just as the elves are looking to make the breakout score, Mighty Blow Wardancer Hank snakes on the turn's first action. The turnover leaves the other wardancer open to the only human tackle player, and his sure hands is there to scoop up the perfect bounce. Fxiii played well, but the outcome was very much in doubt up until the snake.
Casualties: None.
Skills: T/MB Wardancer = Sidestep
New Blood: We've had enough, and blow our savings on 2 linemen to stop the loner hemorrhaging.
Game Twelve - spulatti - Humans - sulidamor - Super Star (164.5)
Oh great. More humans. This time, we're feeling a lot better about the matchup. He's got no sure hands, but a bit more mighty blow. A guard/break tackle Ogre leads the parade, but this team has four blitzers. The star has +AG, Tackle, and Mighty Blow. Two more have guard, and the last one is a rookie. The team also has a block/sidestep catcher and a block lineman. We're looking good here vs no surehands.
Result - 2-0 Humans
The Humans fumble the pickup, and leave it right where T/MB wardancer Hank can grab it. Hank picks up the ball, but the next lineman to take an action snakes a dodge. The ST2 catcher pow/KOs hank, and things are going downhill fast. Next, the tree takes root, and despite a lack of sure hands, a guard on each cage corner keeps Aerobee in check, and we can't knock the ball loose. Aerobee fails a leap, and suffers a gouged eye from a human boot. We're out of wardancers, and it's 1-0 humans at the half.
Hank doesn't recover from his KO, and we try to push the ball into the endzone to give him another shot to get back into the game. He makes a brief return for turn 8, but the game is long over. Our two wardancers play 5 total turns in a 2-0 grind for the humans.
Casualties: SB/+MA Wardancer MNG
Skills: Lineman - Dirty Player
Game Thirteen - Slice 'n' Dice Incorporated - Underworld - fluffy_bunny - Star (153.6)
We're down a wardancer, and when I see Underworld I immediately expect clawpombing. He's got one, a Claw/Mighty Blow/Piling On Blitzer with -av. A claw Troll is gunning for a treeman scalp. He seems to be missing a few skaven, but a Block/Tackle Thrower and a +ST, Block Linerat show up. Various goblins round out the squad.
Result: 2-1 Elves
The clawpomber is ambitious, lining up on the LOS and taking a shot at one of our many loners. He stuns him, but we return fire with the dirty player +3. Result: MNG killer, failed apothocary, and an ejected dirty player. Our new weapon has paid dividends. The treeman has a tough time getting to his feet, and the Underworld stall out most of the first half in a cage before breaking out with a very quick thrower and stunty screen. The elves hem in the runaway thrower and leave him few options... save for the 3+ 2+ 2+ 3+ 3+ dodge, pass and catch. The result is a safe goblin in the far corner, and a stalled out first half score. Nice recovery by fluffy_bunny to put the pressure on the elves. 1-0 Underworld at the half.
The underworld start the second half with only 8 players, and we've killed the +ST linerat. Despite an unwelcome weather change to pouring rain, the elves are going for the win here. Our ball-handling is solid, and the blodge lineman scores on turn 3 to give the ball back to the stunties, now down to 7 players to the elves 9. Despite another weather change, the elves bring relentless pressure, but the underworld sneak out a goblin for an attempted toss with troll based by the tree. The troll screws it up, and the ball is loose. The tree takes root, leaving the troll free and ball beside him. It's anyone's game. But attrition catches up with the underworld, and the elves score on turn 8. Only the troll is left to take the final kickoff, and the elves miss a pitch clearance by one player. The MVP goes to the dirty player. Seems fair.
Casualties: None
Skills: DP Lineman - Kick
New Blood: Despite the poor results, the elves have been staying on the pitch, and once again we blow our savings on a pair of linemen. We're down to just two loners.
Game Fourteen - Nuffle Protects the Morbid- Necromantic - cdassak - Legend (176.25)
Our next game is against another legend with a long list of tournament wins, playing his best race. Our last game was in ranked, and I gave cdassak heck for stalling out for the draw in typical Euro fashion. He's got a tackle/mighty blow wight, who is going to be a problem. His wolf has block, as does one of the FGs. A very scary 4AG, Blodge ghoul rounds out the positionals, but he also has +ST, guard, and dirty player zombies.
Result: 1-1 Stupid Euro Tie
Cdassak takes the ball first, and puts on a positioning clinic. He does make a mistake and exposes his blitzer wight, and our own hitter makes him pay for it with a KO. He smartly marks the treeman with a zombie, and keeps our wardancers busy with flesh golems. In hindsight, I got suckered into taking 3 "free" hits on one of his FGs with my hitter. Probably should have dodged away and taken my shots on softer targets. Another bad move leaves my strip baller prone after gambling on a 1D blitz and coming up skulls. Cdassak surrounds him and delivers consecutive fouls, finally badly hurting him and forcing the apothecary. The second non-SB wardancer comes up bothdown, and the ghoul slips away... to slip on a GFI. Unfortunately, the elves are out of rerolls and the pass action dodge comes up a one. The ghoul quickly recovers and scampers in for the turn 8 touchdown. Cdassak is no dummy, and is well-prepared for the wardancer oneturn with stand firm on the LOS. We go into the half down 1-0, but with 10 players.
His hitter recovers from his KO, and the elves set up for a quick strike touchdown to get back on the defensive. The kick has other ideas, landing on the wrong side of the formation, and in the tacklezone of a flesh golem. Great. We abort the quick strike and surround the ball for safety. The necro capitalize on the clustered elves and base all mens, forcing the carrier lineman to retreat. The elves can't block their way out, and have to dodge back to safety. With the werewolf slipping into the backfield, the elves reverse field and complete a risky pass to Aerobee, the +MA wardancer at top. We cover as best as we can, but we're betting on blodge with his tackler far away. He never gets a sniff, and after a one-turn stall, the elves put it in the endzone on turn 5. Cdassak is cautious with 3 turns remaining, and never really threatens. The game ends in a draw.
Casualties: Blodge Lineman -av, Retired
Skills: None
Game Fifteen - Toronto Ogrenauts - Ogre - Stimme - Super Star (159.17)
With me working in Stimme's hometown this year, it's the Toronto Bowl, and a rematch of our league game of a couple of days ago. Once again, I'm playing wood elves against stunties, and I like my chances. He's got Ogres in Block/Piling On, Break Tackle, Guard, and Frenzy/Juggernaut flavors, plus a rookie for a total of five. One diving tackle snotling and ONE reroll round out the team.
Result: 4-0 Elves
A cynic would comment that we've got plenty of experience beating up Ogres with Wood Elves, and as Stimme commented, it's probably his worst possible matchup. Like the goblin game, we load 11 and 9 SPP on the wardancers, and roll to a 4-0 win. Ogres are bad enough with good dice. With one reroll and not much luck, this is what happens.
Casualties: None(!)
Skills: MB Wardancer +AG, +MA Wardancer +ST
It's a fairly good indication that you've been incredibly lucky with wardancer skills when your first reaction to getting +ST and +AG on two of them in one game was that nuffle got it backwards. On the rough side, we're up to 1440tv, and can expect some tougher games moving forward, but we've got some toys to play with now.
| Fingard wrote: | | Watching again your roster, I must say I'd retire the team indeed |
|
|
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jun 11, 2015 - 06:43 |
|
|
Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jun 11, 2015 - 07:19 |
|
| koadah wrote: | What happened to the rule of five?
Why are you buying linos while you have no catchers?
Are you really going to stop at 20 instead of pushing on to 30 or 40 games?
At this rate you will barely make the Top 250 |
This is pretty consistent with how I play Wood Elves. I usually have a catcher, but with the MA9 wardancer, I'm fine without him for a while. I usually field a thrower, but I've still got two Jmen, no money to replace a wardancer, and recently had as many as 6 loners. Cash is tight. If I am able to get back up to 11 players, maybe the last couple will be extra positionals, but I'm watching every coin, and really don't have a lot of desire to add TV either.
I'm not trying to win a blackbox sprint. The AAR is 20 games. Who knows how long the team will last? |
|
|
Badoek
Joined: May 17, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jun 11, 2015 - 10:24 |
|
great read, looking forward to the next batch! |
_________________
 |
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jun 11, 2015 - 11:24 |
|
| Rat_Salat wrote: | | koadah wrote: | What happened to the rule of five?
Why are you buying linos while you have no catchers?
Are you really going to stop at 20 instead of pushing on to 30 or 40 games?
At this rate you will barely make the Top 250 |
This is pretty consistent with how I play Wood Elves. I usually have a catcher, but with the MA9 wardancer, I'm fine without him for a while. I usually field a thrower, but I've still got two Jmen, no money to replace a wardancer, and recently had as many as 6 loners. Cash is tight. If I am able to get back up to 11 players, maybe the last couple will be extra positionals, but I'm watching every coin, and really don't have a lot of desire to add TV either. |
Ah yes. That is why I would have kept a third journeyman. Then you have an extra 70k in the kitty.
But I suppose if you are not going past 20 games it doesn't really matter.
| Rat_Salat wrote: |
I'm not trying to win a blackbox sprint. The AAR is 20 games. Who knows how long the team will last? |
With journeymen a team lasts as long as it's coach wants it to last. You were at six JMs, now you are down to two.
Even though you are not trying to win a Sprint, after fifteen games I would have expected you to at least be on the list.
| Quote: | | So after abandoning Blackbox almost two years ago, I've heard things have changed. Rather than sit and ignorantly cast stones at the box coaches, I decided to take them up on their offer... and play 20 games of blackbox and see if my pre-conceived notions about the box, and its coaches are true. |
I don't think that 20 games is enough to really get the feel of it. But hey. If you want to head home after 20 of which only one was over 1400 maybe that tells us something. |
_________________
[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
|
m0gw41
Joined: Jun 12, 2012
|
| Posted:
Jun 11, 2015 - 11:40 |
|
Nice write ups, keep 'em coming! |
_________________
 |
|
xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
|
| Posted:
Jun 11, 2015 - 13:59 |
|
Have I missed it somewhere, or have you not actually told us what AAR stands for? I'm assuming it isn't Adam's Apple Reduction... |
_________________
 Nerf Ball 2014 |
|
Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jun 11, 2015 - 15:22 |
|
| koadah wrote: | | Even though you are not trying to win a Sprint, after fifteen games I would have expected you to at least be on the list. |
I'm not sure why you would expect a team that just got to 1400tv to be on a list of teams playing games above 1400tv.
| xnoelx wrote: | | Have I missed it somewhere, or have you not actually told us what AAR stands for? I'm assuming it isn't Adam's Apple Reduction... |
After Action Report.
| koadah wrote: | | I don't think that 20 games is enough to really get the feel of it. But hey. If you want to head home after 20 of which only one was over 1400 maybe that tells us something. |
Relax, you've got at least 5 more games to troll. |
Last edited by Rat_Salat on %b %11, %2015 - %15:%Jun; edited 1 time in total |
|
Strider84
Joined: Jun 03, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jun 11, 2015 - 15:33 |
|
Arr stands for abandoned races race  thats the one you need to know not Aar.
Rat can you help me out why you have a dp on a 11 man woodie team as first lino skill?
And also how did you get 3 stats on 2 wardancers in 15 games?
That could really help improve my human blitzers...
Also: retireing a blodge lino with -av is nuts, really. How often will that make a difference? |
|
|
Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jun 11, 2015 - 15:46 |
|
Strider:
I don't usually take DP, but I decided it might be a good idea in box. It pretty much decided the underworld game, so I think I'm gonna extend the experiment.
I have pretty good luck with wardancers. I got two +ST ones on one team's first game, and one of those ended up with +MA and +AG as well. Ornbarad have had three +ST ones in 204 games, and four legends. My new League wardancer is MA10. I do cycle wardancers pretty quickly, score with them whenever I can, and take all the team's blitzes with them. This leads to fast SPP generation, and more chances to roll stats. We've had 9 wardancer skill-ups and rolled 3 stats and a double. That's pretty lucky, but skilling them 9 times in 15 games helps increase the odds.
AV6 has a 72% of having its armor broken by mighty blow. It makes a pretty big difference, and I'd rather have the rookie loner for 40tv less. This perfectionist behaviour might not be possible over the long term in box, but for now, we're sacking injuries. |
Last edited by Rat_Salat on %b %11, %2015 - %15:%Jun; edited 3 times in total |
|
Angmarred
Joined: Feb 28, 2015
|
| Posted:
Jun 11, 2015 - 15:47 |
|
| Strider84 wrote: | Arr stands for abandoned races race thats the one you need to know not Aar.
Rat can you help me out why you have a dp on a 11 man woodie team as first lino skill?
And also how did you get 3 stats on 2 wardancers in 15 games?
That could really help improve my human blitzers...
Also: retireing a blodge lino with -av is nuts, really. How often will that make a difference? |
A 2d block by a non tackle player will break his armor like 20% of the time. So a lot. |
|
|
|
|
| |
145 League and Tourn...
Search
