NerdBird
Joined: Apr 08, 2014
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Dec 12, 2015 - 17:02 |
 
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So recently I had someone call me out for having a buffer treasury on my High Elf box team, Brianne Kaylee and Emma Rose and received some PM's from Admins to fix my team. I was usually running 2-3 jouneymen a game because I know my 160+ High Elf team pairs up with a lot of nasties. I don't even have a pomber and have a MB on a lino who until recently was without block. I had bought a catcher before the match and had approximately 470k in the bank. In the box my High Elf team has lost 4-5 players in one game, multiple times(Here) and Here, so I try and have 400K or more saved up....
The match in question from the admins, I only had 2 journeymen and 470K in the bank. What is the amount of money in the bank I should have? I have seen the "guidelines" but that is pretty loose and if I want to run a few journeymen fodder, what's the harm? All they are is meat shields because I am going to be down at least 11-8 in 90% of my box games in the TV I reside. I don't have even close to a winning record. I play one of what, 5 High Elf teams above 150 TV that have more than 30 games? So I do not understand why someone would call me out on my bank. I really don't. It's ok to have 2 Million in the bank and run an "optimized" team without any fat. I think managing any Elven team in the box requires different type of team management.
Minmaxing or playing straight out click and point clawpomb is much more entertaining and within the spirit of the game I suppose? 
Anyway, I bought more players so my TV can go up...I can make no money...lose a lot more...get smashed back down into 130 TV and then rebuild. Already been down this road. Where is the balance? A lot of the teams (Nurgle and Chaos easily run 11+ players with millions in the bank if they desire. On my high elf team I could easily hire then fire players to "manage" my treasury and keep it in that 300K realm to not get these types of responses.....but why? I am giving my opponents easy star player points anyway and if I have 11 players that are all part of the team I may as well have 12+ which bloats the TV and causes me to make less money and have more trouble replacing my positionals. High ELf catchers are juicy targets and in the box they usually die quickly. Very quickly. It is not outside the realm to have to replace 2 in one game plus a blitzer.
IMO, as a community we should discuss the real problems on FUMBBL, not the few Elven teams actually playing in the box. How about all those people that play Elven teams in ranked but never play anyone that would hinder their development. Jesus, I actually have all the positionals on my High Elf which a lot of people tell me is not the way to go.
I really enjoy playing in the box because getting fair match ups or any match ups at all is so much easier than activating in ranked. But getting PM's stating I was in violation and need to watch my journeymen sort of irritated me when I run a team that typically proves to be a cherry. I will get off my soapbox now but would love to hear others comment on how wrong I am..... |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Dec 12, 2015 - 17:18 |
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I've asked this very question before, and the closest thing I got to an answer (other than a long but foggy explanation of why no answer was forthcoming) was "if you have enough to rebuild and enough left over to replace one suddenly lost position player, you should buy at least up to 11 men." So with a 9-man HE team, that's about 250k. But it's an admin-judgment thing. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Dec 12, 2015 - 17:38 |
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Well here is PainStates elven strategy to build a massive horde of Gold and not get in trouble with admins for J-man abuse.
#1 Always keep 11 players on the roster.
#2 You never, ever retire players, make them kill them off.
#3 learn to play with SI perm damage. Just becasue he is AG3 or ST2 does not mean he is pointless and has no "role" on the team. Replacing out SI perm damage players all the time drains your treasury faster becasue you are in the red on gold flow.
#4 Never ever apoth a lino. Apoth is only for you +Stat monsters you have on your team
#5 spread some SPP love out to those lino's. Blodge linos last a lot longer than no skill line fodder. Thus increasing your Gold Flow.
#6 When you have 3 MNG for next match, you roll with your 3 jmen. You still have 11 players just 3 of the regulars are MNG. Now here is the key. IF one of the Jmen gets the MVP, you hire him after that match. Now you have a lino 1SPP away from Block or Dodge or Double. Journeymen who get a MVP are gold for elves, quick fire way to the first skill up and little more longevity, which goes back to Gold Flow.
#7 now you have choice. You just hired that Jman at 5spp. Your team is at 12 players. You can elect to keep going forward, now with a 1 player bench OR fire one of those other Linos who are annoying you with Perm damage.
#8 You have to play with perm damage Blitzers and catchers to a certain point. Same idea with the lino's. If you keep firing them the minute thay take a -stat they will drain the Gold faster than replacing out Linos.
#9 Go down to 2 rerolls, hire a coach/cheer and rely on your players skills like block/dodge to cover for your lack of team rerolls. Which goes back to making all attempts to skill all linos up to 6SPP at bare min.
#10 Only spend gold if you are forced to. Horde the gold and keep playing with the perm damage and figure out a way to get around them.
#11 At no point once you treasury is above 300K do you even let you total of regular players go below 11.
There you go.
Now all your problems are solved.
I practice what I preach. Here is my Wood Elf team who uses this exact strategy.
Athel Loren Storm Kings |
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Wizfall
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
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Dec 12, 2015 - 17:48 |
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You are wrong by the site's rule and that not even questionable/debatable.
Now that the site's rule is imperfect and should not apply in your case, i agree. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Dec 12, 2015 - 18:10 |
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| PainState wrote: |
I practice what I preach. Here is my Wood Elf team who uses this exact strategy.
Athel Loren Storm Kings |
Please, show us a Black Box team.
Ranked teams have no Treasury problems (if you have them you are cherrypicking the wrong way  ). |
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Cavetroll
Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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Dec 12, 2015 - 18:18 |
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I am guessing you got called out by a Legend coach playing nurgle and you beat him  |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Dec 12, 2015 - 18:38 |
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| PainState wrote: | | #11 At no point once you treasury is above 300K do you even let you total of regular players go below 11. |
This rule of thumb doesn't seem to be based on accounting or risk management.
Here's Nerdbird's attrition rates for his HE's last ten games:
0/1/1
3/0/0
4/2/0
2/1/0
3/2/1
2/1/0
1/0/0
1/1/0
4/1/0
4/2/0
Suppose an average of 40k per game in winnings. Furthermore, suppose the deaths were only linos and were bought with these winnings. This implies that during that streak, the winnings earned are 400 - 140 = 260k. Unless the HEs had less than 50k in their treasury at the beginning of this streak, they would have to buy another lino they may no need to keep within 300k. This in turn carries the risk of getting positionals killed, more so if the MSG are themselves positionals.
Forcing teams to empty their pockets to buy stuff they don't need to get that will get them at a TV level where they'll get destroyed may not be a sound good rule of thumb. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Dec 12, 2015 - 18:41 |
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| thoralf wrote: | | PainState wrote: | | #11 At no point once you treasury is above 300K do you even let you total of regular players go below 11. |
This rule of thumb doesn't seem to be based on accounting or risk management.
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You are correct it is not based on either of those.
It is based on the reality that if you have 300K+ in treasure and have less than 11 regular players on your roster YOU MOST LIKELY will be reported and have a talk with a admin which brings up the entire point of the OP and this thread. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Dec 12, 2015 - 18:45 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | PainState wrote: |
I practice what I preach. Here is my Wood Elf team who uses this exact strategy.
Athel Loren Storm Kings |
Please, show us a Black Box team.
Ranked teams have no Treasury problems (if you have them you are cherrypicking the wrong way ). |
Well, in my defense this is my ELF meta group team. It is a lot easier playing in the ELF meta group in ranked because I play maybe 10-20 games total in the Box during a Meta Group season. So I would most likely never have a chance to complete a season. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Dec 12, 2015 - 18:48 |
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Well
Here is my Box elf team.
Dark Sea Raiders
At one point they had 500K in gold and a 16 man roster. Then 2 majors later they where beat down and beat up, lost a PO/MB dude and now the treasury is empty after that affair.
But we will rebuild and once again fill the coffers full of gold. |
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Dalfort
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
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Dec 12, 2015 - 18:51 |
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| Cavetroll wrote: | | I am guessing you got called out by a Legend coach playing nurgle and you beat him |
QFT! |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Dec 12, 2015 - 18:56 |
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| PainState wrote: | | It is based on the reality that if you have 300K+ in treasure and have less than 11 regular players on your roster YOU MOST LIKELY will be reported and have a talk with a admin which brings up the entire point of the OP and this thread. |
The entire point of the OP and this thread is not that "rulz are rulz," and my own understanding is that one can have as much as three times his most expensive positional.
My own points were that "regular players in your roster" is a concept that is fuzzyfied by MSGs, and that requiring teams to empty their banks once they reach a quota may not be wise. |
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sheepycollins
Joined: Sep 21, 2015
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Dec 12, 2015 - 19:17 |
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7. If a team can only field 10 or less
players for the next match,
the team may bring Journeymen onto
the roster for free until the team can field 11 players for the next match.
I get this isn't how it's seen on FUMBBL but in out TT league we interperet unable to field 11 players as having < 11 players on your roster.
If you don't, but have the cash to but a linesman, then you have to buy a linesman, but again that is the rules we use as a group of FREINDS who play TT not in a competitive setting, but as a rule of thumn i would play the same way here.
If you can afford a replacement you should
PS of course MNG players that take you under 11 also get a free journeyman, though we did a crazy weekend all elf league 3 years ago in 1 weekend where the 4 of us took 1 elf faction each and played basically non stop round robin style with the rule of no jounrneymen and no spending gold on new players, and no firing players but MNG of -stat's ceased to apply, within 6 games my WE team was down to the tree, a wardancer, a catcher (god knows how) and 3 linesman :p |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Dec 12, 2015 - 19:20 |
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"470k in the bank" and running Jmen.
seems outside the usual guidelines to this fish.
and its not only elfs who do this. many teams do.
#notjustelfs |
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NerdBird
Joined: Apr 08, 2014
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Dec 12, 2015 - 19:42 |
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