harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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 Posted:
Feb 07, 2016 - 23:59 |
 
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No, I definitely blame the coaches. The ruleset didn't set out for exploits. If you knowingly exploit a ruleset then that is you. I know the exploits but I would never try to harm the game I love. And that goes to all of you, you know what you're doing, pretending it's a professional sport when actually it's fun fanbased computer game. COMPUTER GAME doesn't equal a PROFESSIONAL JOB. Get it?........probably not. RECREATION not LIFE AND DEATH!
Now legs open Matt, I have my spoon! |
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Angmarred
Joined: Feb 28, 2015
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Feb 08, 2016 - 00:03 |
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EA have you considered folks might be passing on the stat for game reasons? I'd never take ag on a linerat and a TV is a distant third if it factors at all.
1) even if you take the ag, a Skaven team still has 4-5 players better suited for ball handling. Gutter Runners are faster and start with Dodge. Throwers start with Sure Hands and Pass so they pick up better and move the ball forward better. Most of the time you'd rather have the ball in the hands of one of them over your ag4 lino. Which means your Lino is now an av7 player with no defensive skills open for hits. I'd rather have Wrestle.
2) Skaven have plenty of ball handling but few players who can do the dirty work in the trenches. A wrestle player can give and take hits much better and with av7 you need that guy on the pitch. Skaven need their linemen to be crappy blitzers way more than they need them to be crappy gutter runners
3) Least importantly, tv is real, even in league. The extra tv for questionable benefit could mean a wizard for or against.
I'd take wrestle. No question. |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Feb 08, 2016 - 00:04 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | RECREATION not genital mutilation by spoon! |
Just to emphasise the irony there. |
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 Nerf Ball 2014 |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Feb 08, 2016 - 00:12 |
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| Angmarred wrote: | EA have you considered folks might be passing on the stat for game reasons? I'd never take ag on a linerat and a TV is a distant third if it factors at all.
1) even if you take the ag, a Skaven team still has 4-5 players better suited for ball handling. Gutter Runners are faster and start with Dodge. Throwers start with Sure Hands and Pass so they pick up better and move the ball forward better. Most of the time you'd rather have the ball in the hands of one of them over your ag4 lino. Which means your Lino is now an av7 player with no defensive skills open for hits. I'd rather have Wrestle.
2) Skaven have plenty of ball handling but few players who can do the dirty work in the trenches. A wrestle player can give and take hits much better and with av7 you need that guy on the pitch. Skaven need their linemen to be crappy blitzers way more than they need them to be crappy gutter runners
3) Least importantly, tv is real, even in league. The extra tv for questionable benefit could mean a wizard for or against.
I'd take wrestle. No question. |
What you are describing is still TV based, the 3rd you even admit that. If you don't have enough line rats to do the task this fellow could do......buy another.
ag4/av7 is so much better than ag3/av7. If then you stick dodge or 2 heads on him in the future..gosh golly. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Feb 08, 2016 - 00:14 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | No, I definitely blame the coaches. The ruleset didn't set out for exploits. If you knowingly exploit a ruleset then that is you. I know the exploits but I would never try to harm the game I love. |
You are not the whole community.
I don't exploit clawpomb, personally, but since the rules don't forbid the combo I can't expect that other coaches won't take it.
If there is an exploit rules must fix it, it's simple like that and by the way, refusing to take +AG on a linerat is far far away from killing the game or exploiting the rules.
Clawpomb, natural one turners and some gamebreaking Kick Off events are the real issues.
| harvestmouse wrote: |
And that goes to all of you, you know what you're doing, pretending it's a professional sport when actually it's fun fanbased computer game. COMPUTER GAME doesn't equal a PROFESSIONAL JOB. Get it?........probably not. RECREATION not LIFE AND DEATH!
Now legs open Matt, I have my spoon! |
Blood Bowl started as a tabletop game for fun and giggles, a twisted parody of American football, but over the years it has developed a more competitive aspect that can't, and shouldn't, be overlooked.
For some people winning is recreation, losing is but frustration.
Sorry but I don't like to play spoon games, especially with men...
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Angmarred
Joined: Feb 28, 2015
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Feb 08, 2016 - 00:18 |
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What are you talking about? Realistically you will have 4 gr, 2 blitzers and maybe a thrower or rogre. That's 4 linerats on the pitch. So no, you never have enough. Shaven have 4 lightning fast ag4 players already. That ag4 linerat doesn't add much. S3 wrestle adds a lot IMO. Now you're talking about adding some doubles. So let's do that. Your ag4 guy takes dodge or 2 heads. Great he can get wherever and then do nothing. I take Horns. Now I blitz at s4 with wrestle. I'm sorry dude, wrestle is just better than a4 on a linerat. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Feb 08, 2016 - 00:37 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | harvestmouse wrote: | | No, I definitely blame the coaches. The ruleset didn't set out for exploits. If you knowingly exploit a ruleset then that is you. I know the exploits but I would never try to harm the game I love. |
You are not the whole community.
I don't exploit clawpomb, personally, but since the rules don't forbid the combo I can't expect that other coaches won't take it.
If there is an exploit rules must fix it, it's simple like that and by the way, refusing to take +AG on a linerat is far far away from killing the game or exploiting the rules.
Clawpomb, natural one turners and some gamebreaking Kick Off events are the real issues. |
Here we go again with crazy Matt. Now, don't get me wrong. I have a lot of respect for you and I've gained a lot of respect for you here and over at stuntyleeg.
However.....you are a zealot. There's no other way to describe you. Your views are somewhat left wing of left wing.
I think you're more than ready to come down on those that use CPOMB and rightly so. However I feel we should self govern ourselves on those that exploit any loopholes. It's not hard........don't exploit loopholes. It's not a science experiment for the future of the game exploiting loopholes. A monkey with a working anus can work out what they are......so stop it. You're just being a dick for no reason other than winning games on a fanbased site. If you need to feel like a male lion that is king of his pride then bloody well youtube a lion and roar along with him. Blackboxing norse at 1200k or playing veterans in ranked doesn't make you a lion, it makes you a 35 year old with no friends and not quite sure what modern music is other than now that's what I call 7....whatever. Stop it and grow up.
| MattDakka wrote: | | harvestmouse wrote: |
And that goes to all of you, you know what you're doing, pretending it's a professional sport when actually it's fun fanbased computer game. COMPUTER GAME doesn't equal a PROFESSIONAL JOB. Get it?........probably not. RECREATION not LIFE AND DEATH!
Now legs open Matt, I have my spoon! |
Blood Bowl started as a tabletop game for fun and giggles, a twisted parody of American football, but over the years it has developed a more competitive aspect that can't, and shouldn't, be overlooked.
For some people winning is recreation, losing is but frustration.
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I don't disagree with that. However lets play on a level playing field and the playing field that was intended. Losing is frustration, especially to dice. I think we all feel that, however that is an aspect of the game, trying to win the game on TV before it begins........that isn't. If you do that, I will have you with my spoon once the apocalypse begins. Mark my words, I am in training.
| Angmarred wrote: | | What are you talking about? Realistically you will have 4 gr, 2 blitzers and maybe a thrower or rogre. That's 4 linerats on the pitch. So no, you never have enough. Shaven have 4 lightning fast ag4 players already. That ag4 linerat doesn't add much. S3 wrestle adds a lot IMO. Now you're talking about adding some doubles. So let's do that. Your ag4 guy takes dodge or 2 heads. Great he can get wherever and then do nothing. I take Horns. Now I blitz at s4 with wrestle. I'm sorry dude, wrestle is just better than a4 on a linerat. |
You just can't see it as you are in the TV mindset. AV7 rats that get tied down are useless. So man marking with AV8 is a good way to remove them. AG4 means man marking is less useful. It also means you have a free rat. On top of this you have a rat that can make completions, meaning he'll get to 16spp pretty quickly. So if you roll a normal he has block, if you roll a double he has dodge or 2 heads. Then he is one of your better players.
What do you mean he can do nothing? Is position nothing in this game? Is a one shot one die hit on a ball carrier nothing in this game? Skaven defensive play is all about pressure at the right time. If an ag4 skaven doesn't aid in this then I'm video tape wedged into a fax machine. |
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Nabolo
Joined: Oct 17, 2014
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Feb 08, 2016 - 01:06 |
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Thanks to all for participating !
Am I wrong to be TW aware ? A wizzard has 5/6 to stop a TD so I feel concerned :p
And a chainsaw vs an av7 team hurts badly... |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Feb 08, 2016 - 01:35 |
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| Quote: | | COMPUTER GAME doesn't equal a PROFESSIONAL JOB. Get it?........probably not. RECREATION not LIFE AND DEATH! |
Poor HM, I get it. I'm on your side! When its real lives at stake, it's ok to exploit loopholes, screw people over, find ways around taxes. But when it's a game the fun ends. Your actions have no impact, so STOP TRYING SO HARD!
Right? Did I sum that up correctly with my own words? |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Feb 08, 2016 - 01:52 |
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mouth words putting in my......now make a sentence out of that.
A good analogy would be:
Imagine there is a trout lake near your home. It's a nice trout lake. If as a village we maintain it and fish responsibly we have a trout lake for life. However it would be easy to hammer it, get all the trout for ourselves now and kill it for everybody else and the future.
Our ruleset is the same and has problems, we know that. However we don't have an authority to rid us of those problems anymore. Therefore it becomes our responsibility to self govern ourselves and not to exploit the trout lake....errrr BB ruleset. If we don't, then we need to appoint a spoon guy.
Is that a good enough sum of words? |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Feb 08, 2016 - 02:07 |
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Except that analogy ignores the main point he made, because ruining a food source like a trout lake would/could be a life and death matter. A better comparison would be if the trout lake was still there, but there was a patch of dill nearby, and the dill was BB.
Just to be clear, I have no strong feelings either way. I'd take the AG, but I don't mind that others wouldn't. I mean, it'd be silly if I did have strong feelings about it, right? Because this is "RECREATION not LIFE AND DEATH!".
I have to say though, it is amusing to see you taking it so seriously when other people take the game seriously, and telling them off for doing just what you're doing, albeit from a different viewpoint. I mean, come on, that's funny, no? Surely you can see that? It can't just be me... |
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fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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Feb 08, 2016 - 02:36 |
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This is entertaining. HM is feisty tonite! He can't be drunk can he, it's morning in Japan!
xnx, HM is saying the game is threatened by people who take winning so seriously. So he aggressively defends the game's existence against those who must win at all costs. This is no contradiction. If he doesn't defend, he may have to find another game to play.
Interestingly I think one of the main features of BB for many coaches is exactly its imbalance. How many coaches do you know who play exclusively Wood Elves at resurrection tournaments, low-TV Norse and Dwarves or high-TV Nurgle in Box, etc.? If it wasn't for the advantages they can gain against the rest of us who play for fun and roleplaying, they wouldn't play at all. It scratches an itch: that domination they can achieve in a small corner of the human experience that they can't achieve in other areas of life.
It's completely understandable and 100% human nature. In that respect it's the ruleset's fault. But more to the point it's the fact that over time players will wring optimality out of anything they are competitive about. This more than anything is the reason why a BBRC is necessary -- even if the ruleset doesn't improve, a significant change is as good, because it resets that optimization process. |
Last edited by fidius on %b %08, %2016 - %02:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Feb 08, 2016 - 02:47 |
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Oh, I get his motivation. It still amuses me though.
And on a slightly more serious note, belittling the competitive types (which I'm clearly not) by assuming that they prefer to play against/dominate those who aren't as competitive achieves nothing useful. In fact, most of the coaches who play WE at TT tourneys, for example, will end up playing against other, similarly competitive coaches, who do much the same sort of thing. And that's what they enjoy. Which is entirely fair enough. Not my thing, but not a bad thing either. The situation in B is a little more complex, but I think by and large it's similar. |
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Nerf Ball 2014 |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Feb 08, 2016 - 03:05 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: |
However.....you are a zealot. There's no other way to describe you. Your views are somewhat left wing of left wing. |
I'm a zealot but you are a zealot too, so accusing me of being a zealot is a bit ironic. 
I don't think my views are left wing.
| harvestmouse wrote: |
I think you're more than ready to come down on those that use CPOMB and rightly so. However I feel we should self govern ourselves on those that exploit any loopholes. It's not hard........don't exploit loopholes. It's not a science experiment for the future of the game exploiting loopholes. |
Self-governing is utopic, without rules some people will always exploit something.
Unless the community is very small, self-governing is not going to work, the human being is generally selfish.
We have rulesets and laws to prevent that selfish behaviours have a negative effect on community and society.
| harvestmouse wrote: |
You're just being a dick for no reason other than winning games on a fanbased site. |
For you it's a futile reason, for other people it's not because they are selfish and driven by the desire to win. Different people have different opinions and views, good rules help to control what they are allowed and not allowed to do, in a crystal-clear way for everybody to understand.
| harvestmouse wrote: |
trying to win the game on TV before it begins........that isn't. |
I will make an example: I like to play Khemri, if I don't control their TV I could face either a clawpomb spam team or an elf team with a Wizard (and mind, even in private league environment it's important to keep the TV in check, not just in a MM one like the Box).
Am I trying to win the game before it begins, or am I just trying not to lose the game before it begins?
In other words, controlling the TV may be a self-defensive workaround to avoid broken match-ups.
When ALL the exploits are fixed then we will talk about the "unfairness" of the TV management.
We could even discuss about the bad pricing and design of some rosters and players that make some choices more effective than others.
Is really unfair TV controlling not rostering a Rat Ogre because it sucks for its price? |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %08, %2016 - %03:%Feb; edited 2 times in total |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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| Posted:
Feb 08, 2016 - 03:17 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | If we don't, then we need to appoint a spoon guy. |
Anyone got a spare potion?: 
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=player&player_id=5588473 |
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