xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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 Posted:
Jul 22, 2016 - 22:34 |
 
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But over 100 games, the Trolls would gain skills and TV, the team would gain FF and bloat, and you wouldn't have enough cash to stay low. So, maybe they can only be used well in the short term, but long term wasn't the specific situation mentioned. Low TV was.
For the record, I'm not claiming goblins are the best at much of anything, merely that they can do well, if used well, especially at low TV. |
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 Nerf Ball 2014 |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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| Posted:
Jul 22, 2016 - 23:10 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: |
I'd like everyone to post their team with the lowest TD allowed per game.
Also for teams over 100 games, which team has the highest shutout rate. |
I have only one team over 100 games, the Ranked Amateurs, who have allowed 159 TD in 166 games. But that hardly speaks to my Humans in general, they're all former Journeymen.
Among all my teams with significant numbers of games played (say, more than 30), Welcome to Ranked! has the stingiest TD:Games ratio, having allowed 51 TD in 72 games. Again, that's a boutique team, and it's not indicative of anything except that you can do a lot with just a little Block and Tackle. And that there's a disproportionate number of noob coaches on Ranked at around 1-1.2M TV, and this team's a good, friendly way to say hello. |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jul 22, 2016 - 23:30 |
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| ArrestedDevelopment wrote: | | MattDakka wrote: |
The sample is too small to be meaningful.
Show me a sample of 100 or more Box games with the same Goblin team. |
That'd be meaningless too  |
Less meaningless, for sure.
The larger a sample is, the more meaningful it is. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jul 22, 2016 - 23:33 |
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| xnoelx wrote: | But over 100 games, the Trolls would gain skills and TV, the team would gain FF and bloat, and you wouldn't have enough cash to stay low. So, maybe they can only be used well in the short term, but long term wasn't the specific situation mentioned. Low TV was.
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The Trolls could be cycled, and by the way I wrote this:
"f they were so good at low TV then Black Box would have had lots of Goblin teams. "
I don't see Box infested by Goblin teams at low TV.
Maybe I'm unlucky, but I've played over 1200 games in the Box. |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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| Posted:
Jul 22, 2016 - 23:41 |
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And saying they are "so good" isn't what I said. I said they can do well, if used well. Not many people use them well, and some of those that could don't try because they're already convinced it won't work without having tried. |
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Nerf Ball 2014 |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Jul 23, 2016 - 00:16 |
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My Box Teams Ranked by shutout rate:
Orc-44.44%
Undead-33.33%
Chaos Dwarf-32.26%
Khemri-31.48%
Nurgle-30.00%
Necro-27.78%
Norse-27.69%
Chaos Pact-27.50%
Underworld-22.41%
Chaos-21.62%
Amazon-20.93%
Dwarves-20.49%
Pro Elf-20.31%
Skaven-19.35%
Lizardmen-19.05%
Dark Elf-18.18%
Skaven-16.67%
Human-16.22%
Wood Elf-15.84%
Skaven-15.38%
Slann-15.15%
Ogre-13.70%
Skaven-12.82%
Halfling-12.68%
High Elf-12.26%
Skaven-11.76%
Vampire-11.11%
Goblin-8.82%
Skaven-5.15%
My box teams ranked by TDs allowed per game:
Undead-0.84
Orc-0.89
Nurgle-0.93
Necro-1.03
Chaos Dwarf-1.03
Khemri-1.07
Chaos Pact-1.08
Chaos-1.11
Norse-1.14
Underworld-1.17
Lizardmen-1.24
Amazon-1.33
Dark Elf-1.33
Skaven-1.35
Skaven-1.38
Pro Elf-1.39
Dwarves-1.43
Slann-1.45
Skaven-1.49
Vampire-1.50
Human-1.51
High Elf-1.51
Wood Elf-1.51
Skaven-1.62
Skaven-1.74
Skaven-1.76
Halfling-1.96
Ogre-1.96
Goblin-2.13
My box teams ranked by TDs scored per game:
Skaven-2.32
Wood Elf-1.84
High Elf-1.75
Skaven-1.74
Skaven-1.74
Skaven-1.74
Skaven-1.73
Pro Elf-1.72
Human-1.48
Skaven-1.33
Amazon-1.33
Lizardmen-1.31
Necro-1.26
Vampire-1.24
Dark Elf-1.21
Chaos Pact-1.15
Chaos-1.14
Chaos Dwarf-1.13
Khemri-1.09
Slann-1.09
Underworld-1.09
Undead-1.04
Dwarves-1.01
Orc-0.97
Norse-0.94
Halfling-0.89
Nurgle-0.87
Goblin-0.71
Ogre-0.60
My Box teams by Winrate (1-.5-0)
Amazon-51.16%
Chaos-45.95%
Chaos Dwarf-66.13%
Chaos Pact-56.25%
Dark Elf-43.18%
Dwarves-46.83%
Goblin-22.06%
Halfling-28.87%
High Elf-55.19%
Human-47.57%
Khemri-55.56%
Lizardmen-47.62%
Necro-59.03%
Norse-49.23%
Nurgle-51.67%
Ogre-24.66%
Orc-54.17%
Pro Elf-58.59%
Skaven-67.74%
Skaven-44.87%
Skaven-55.95%
Skaven-48.53%
Skaven-49.48%
Skaven-46.15%
Slann-37.88%
Undead-56.86%
Underworld-45.69%
Vampire-40.37%
Wood Elf-56.44%
Master Set:
Games - TDsF - TDsA - TDFR - TDAR - Shutouts - SOR - W - T - L - WR
Amazon - 43 - 57 - 57 - 1.33 - 1.33 - 9 - 20.93% - 19 - 6 - 18 - 51.16%
Chaos - 37 - 42 - 41 - 1.14 - 1.11 - 8 - 21.62% - 11 - 12 - 14 - 45.95%
Chaos Dwarf - 31 - 35 - 32 - 1.13 - 1.03 - 10 - 32.26% - 17 - 7 - 7 - 66.13%
Chaos Pact - 40 - 46 - 43 - 1.15 - 1.08 - 11 - 27.50% - 17 - 11 - 12 - 56.25%
Dark Elf - 66 - 80 - 88 - 1.21 - 1.33 - 12 - 18.18% - 22 - 13 - 31 - 43.18%
Dwarves - 122 - 123 - 174 - 1.01 - 1.43 - 25 - 20.49% - 46 - 26 - 54 - 46.83%
Goblin - 170 - 121 - 362 - 0.71 - 2.13 - 15 - 8.82% - 22 - 31 - 117 - 22.06%
Halfling - 71 - 63 - 139 - 0.89 - 1.96 - 9 - 12.68% - 17 - 7 - 47 - 28.87%
High Elf - 106 - 185 - 160 - 1.75 - 1.51 - 13 - 12.26% - 50 - 17 - 39 - 55.19%
Human - 185 - 273 - 279 - 1.48 - 1.51 - 30 - 16.22% - 65 - 46 - 74 - 47.57%
Khemri - 54 - 59 - 58 - 1.09 - 1.07 - 17 - 31.48% - 25 - 10 - 19 - 55.56%
Lizardmen - 42 - 55 - 52 - 1.31 - 1.24 - 8 - 19.05% - 14 - 12 - 16 - 47.62%
Necro - 72 - 91 - 74 - 1.26 - 1.03 - 20 - 27.78% - 31 - 23 - 18 - 59.03%
Norse - 65 - 61 - 74 - 0.94 - 1.14 - 18 - 27.69% - 25 - 14 - 26 - 49.23%
Nurgle - 30 - 26 - 28 - 0.87 - 0.93 - 9 - 30.00% - 10 - 11 - 9 - 51.67%
Ogre - 73 - 44 - 143 - 0.60 - 1.96 - 10 - 13.70% - 13 - 10 - 50 - 24.66%
Orc - 36 - 35 - 32 - 0.97 - 0.89 - 16 - 44.44% - 16 - 7 - 13 - 54.17%
Pro Elf - 64 - 110 - 89 - 1.72 - 1.39 - 13 - 20.31% - 32 - 11 - 21 - 58.59%
Skaven - 31 - 72 - 42 - 2.32 - 1.35 - 6 - 19.35% - 17 - 8 - 6 - 67.74%
Skaven - 39 - 68 - 63 - 1.74 - 1.62 - 5 - 12.82% - 16 - 3 - 20 - 44.87%
Skaven - 42 - 73 - 58 - 1.74 - 1.38 - 7 - 16.67% - 19 - 9 - 14 - 55.95%
Skaven - 68 - 118 - 118 - 1.74 - 1.74 - 8 - 11.76% - 24 - 18 - 26 - 48.53%
Skaven - 97 - 168 - 171 - 1.73 - 1.76 - 5 - 5.15% - 36 - 24 - 37 - 49.48%
Skaven - 39 - 52 - 58 - 1.33 - 1.49 - 6 - 15.38% - 15 - 6 - 18 - 46.15%
Slann - 33 - 36 - 48 - 1.09 - 1.45 - 5 - 15.15% - 7 - 11 - 15 - 37.88%
Undead - 51 - 53 - 43 - 1.04 - 0.84 - 17 - 33.33% - 23 - 12 - 16 - 56.86%
Underworld - 58 - 63 - 68 - 1.09 - 1.17 - 13 - 22.41% - 20 - 13 - 25 - 45.69%
Vampire - 135 - 167 - 202 - 1.24 - 1.50 - 15 - 11.11% - 39 - 31 - 65 - 40.37%
Wood Elf - 101 - 186 - 153 - 1.84 - 1.51 - 16 - 15.84% - 47 - 20 - 34 - 56.44% |
Last edited by mrt1212 on %b %23, %2016 - %03:%Jul; edited 3 times in total |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Jul 23, 2016 - 00:26 |
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All those numbers and there's still a plethora of factors that could contribute that we have no way to measure like how many times you played defense to start in the 1st vs. 2nd half. |
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Dhaktokh
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
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| Posted:
Jul 23, 2016 - 00:38 |
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PaddyMick
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
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| Posted:
Jul 23, 2016 - 01:16 |
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stop the score: nurgle
counterattack like lesta citeh: wood elves |
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Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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| Posted:
Jul 23, 2016 - 02:00 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | Because you can avoid it easily, since you are not forced to get close to it, unlike on offence, when you can keep your ball carrier near the Ball & Chain therefore luring the opponent players close to it.
Moreover, the opponent can score and make the Ball & Chain get ejected. |
Wierd, i had always thought both forcing a quick score and pushing the offence onto one side of the pitch were good defensive values... |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 23, 2016 - 02:34 |
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| Uedder wrote: | | MattDakka wrote: | Because you can avoid it easily, since you are not forced to get close to it, unlike on offence, when you can keep your ball carrier near the Ball & Chain therefore luring the opponent players close to it.
Moreover, the opponent can score and make the Ball & Chain get ejected. |
Wierd, i had always thought both forcing a quick score and pushing the offence onto one side of the pitch were good defensive values... |
For a normal team sure.
For a crappy stunty team? Just means you're probably losing 3-0 or 4-1.
Gobbos are NOT a great or even good defensive team. Come on.
Nurgz are the best defensive team. |
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Lorebass
Joined: Jun 25, 2010
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Nurgle definitely. Dorfs being good at a static defense is just crap. They are worse with keeping up with the ball than khemri and a "good" defense also means you can take the ball on an opponents offensive.
Nurgle have MA6 and can tentacle any fast team without ever needing to roll a double. That ruins positioning and other mutations make then able to grab the ball from almost any mess.
They wont be easy to play at first though with lack of block for rookies |
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Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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| Posted:
Jul 23, 2016 - 03:17 |
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Licker i never ever said goboz are even a decent defensive team.
The debate there was just whether B&C is best used on offence or defence.
And yeah at 2000+ tv nurgle is the best defensive team.
But they suck hard all the way down from there.
I think there are better defensive teams accross all tv ranges. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 23, 2016 - 03:58 |
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| Uedder wrote: | Licker i never ever said goboz are even a decent defensive team.
The debate there was just whether B&C is best used on offence or defence.
And yeah at 2000+ tv nurgle is the best defensive team.
But they suck hard all the way down from there.
I think there are better defensive teams accross all tv ranges. |
Nurgz are underrated for defense even at lower TV. They do struggle on offense some though. The thing is that DisPres and FA are good at all TVs. Prestis are solid enough at 6spp, and rotters can clog things up and gang foul out threats.
That even ignores the beast who may or may not be used.
They only get better as they add skills, and by the time they have a few stars they are so damn hard to score on.
But sure you can say that elfs who don't take any cas during a drive and make all their dodges are the best too, but it's easier to play against elfs than it is to play against nurgz.
I mean this is sort of a strange question. There are so many 'it depends' that it's impossible to answer without making heavy caveats about TV, opponents, and even your teams build. Nurgz though are tough for AG teams, they are tough for bash teams, they are tough for claw teams. They don't really have a weakness on defense that is easily exploited by anyone. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Jul 23, 2016 - 04:05 |
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Nurgle is a Nurgle's worst offense to defend against.
Who decided that Nurgle needed a boost between version and how long have they been in Big Nurgle's pocket? |
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