Desultory
Joined: Jun 24, 2008
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 Posted:
Nov 19, 2016 - 14:15 |
 
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| xnoelx wrote: | | The rules of the game already say you get 4 minutes to play. No need for anything to be added. And that situation had nothing to do with disconnections. |
We've established it's 'illegal' to time out an afk player, and we know what to do after 15minutes because those rules are written.
- But what if a player writes afk at the beginning of his turn. Player returns at 4mins 1seconds stating 'back'. Opponent insta-times him out. Legal?
This is the type of situation that should have clarity.
It's relevant to Dominik's game.
It wouldn't be hard to write the rules for these situations.
I think a lot of change doesn't happen because this type of thread draws the usual attention seeking thread spammers and naysayers, and they're all like 'you can't write a rule for every situation', or subjectively concluding 'there's no issue here, so do nothing' or 'just don't be a jerk' which is really unhelpful in solving or clarifying anything. |
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easilyamused
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
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Nov 19, 2016 - 14:23 |
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I'm not sure how many times it has to be said.
We are not going to write strict rules for every simgle scenario that could crop up in a game.
*shakes head in amazement*
Am I the only one around here who actually considers this a hobby to be enjoyed? So what if your opponent occasionally goes over the limit. Sit back, relax, chat and have fun. |
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Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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Nov 19, 2016 - 14:32 |
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Desultory. It's not legal. It's been made pretty clear by now. And there can be no black/white rules to avoid abuse. That's also been made pretty clear.
And experienced players taking constantly over 4 minutes is a pile of crap. What are they doing? Checking all the possible actions on samba or with a calculator most likely. So no feel bad for timing them out, they're abusing your free time.
Very different with a random 4 min turn which may happen to anyone or in the case of someone new to the client or the game or both. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Nov 19, 2016 - 16:00 |
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| Desultory wrote: | This is the type of situation that should have clarity.
It's relevant to Dominik's game.
It wouldn't be hard to write the rules for these situations.
I think a lot of change doesn't happen because this type of thread draws the usual attention seeking thread spammers and naysayers, and they're all like 'you can't write a rule for every situation'. |
1. The situation rather shows the limits of seeking a fully written site rule. It also shows that the admins' position is sound.
2. The case I underlined shows how a munchkin could exploit a written code by reading it literally. It is not related to Dom's case. This kind of over stretching is what I compared to gerrymandering in a previous thread - abusing signification for gain say.
3. Ad Homs may not be the best way to get cuddled, more so when they target site admins. They are the ones who keep telling you that you can't get what you want.
The OP case is more related to the soccer convention according to which you kick the ball out of the field when the other team has an injured guy.
Rules. Conventions. Learn the difference. |
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There is always Sneaky Git.
Last edited by thoralf on %b %19, %2016 - %16:%Nov; edited 1 time in total |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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Nov 19, 2016 - 16:01 |
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@Desultory If you instead of focusing on getting these super exact rulings like Blood Bowl was some sort of supreme court process, and focused on what you can do to make the game an equally pleasant experience for both coaches, I believe you will arrive at your "goal" sooner.
I'm going to use professional poker as an example here. Its just a card game, but they play for literally millions of dollars, and still they are able to keep an all-in-all civil, pleasant, social tone, despite having rather loose rules that refer to "poker etiquette" for how players should and should not behave.
The poker game basically demands of the players to figure out what good etiquette means for themselves, and stick to that. And they manage to do that nicely. Most of them that is - in poker, as in Blood Bowl, there are of course a few players who insist on being complete douche bags, and which are unwilling or unable to conform to their fellow players' expectations of decency.
So it's a question of what kind of player you want to be: one that your fellow players enjoy playing against, or one that need the exact rules so they can find out just how much of a douche bag the rules will allow them to be.
Because Fumbbl is not going to change just to suit your personal needs. |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Nov 19, 2016 - 16:57 |
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| Desultory wrote: |
We've established it's 'illegal' to time out an afk player, |
I don't think this is true at all. I would have any expectation to get away with timing someone 'afk'. I think if you have read Christers comment, which I also quoted in Dominiks thread. What we can gather from Christers words is that he very much wishes to generate clear rules about the matter and that this would not be ambiguous if there was a reliable way to handle disconnections. It easily holds that you indeeed can time someone out who writes 'afk' into the chat. Likewise time someone out who is afk on return and says nothing else. There is however a dimension that is practiced clearly by the administration that holds that real life reasons can be valid grounds for having to be waited for.
By Christers words you still shouldnt be naive to think you can reliably time someone out since being 'afk' doesn't 'necessarily' justify not being timed out. 'Necessarily' being the critical word which does once again not indicate whether it is legal or not legal but up for debate.
From the side of the coach that makes a statement that he is 'afk' that means he should not see himself in some false state of safety. And that he is very much in a position to have to justify and explain his absence if he does not wish to be timed.
To make matters worse to hold such a stance you need to have the competence to circumnavigate the site and not fall into the pitfalls such as that administrators like EA and others clearly want to hold you up to a stricter interpretation of the legality of what you can do and very much have the authority to do so.
If you understand that all, you will also understand that the only critical element that remains is that upon using the button you can take a position that has somehow warranted it.
For example because your opponent has been repeatedly slow. That you have accounted for the time he has been away and that you thoroughly warned him. Likewise your opponent might continually exploit the game by constantly stating he is 'afk', have a very poor reason to be afk such as to annoy you or just wanting to study the screen. But likewise needing to use a toilet, answering a phone, needing to finish a school project or other non critical activities clearly fall not under Christers definition of what is a valid reason to go afk. From what I can gather this is also the crux where you will find administrative members (and you always have to deal with them first) taking most critically a different stance. Imagine the following scenario: You time someone out for being afk, he reports you to the admins, the admin in charge issues a warning to you but the action ends up being of no consequence and no other steps are taken. Now because of that you don't make a big deal out of this and you tell yourself, ok whatever it's just a warning, so I'm gonna ignore it. You once again time someone out who is 'afk'. Now the admin can reasonably claim that you ignored a directive given by the administration repeatedly - which is very much against the site rules.
The stance you want to take therefore is not one that falls into a grey area. Especially since you will find it is not pleasing to be repeatedly reported either. The position from of which it is unambigous however to time someone is that position from of which you have a good reason to do so and you know for a fact the cause of the problem was not a disconnect. |
Last edited by Wreckage on %b %19, %2016 - %17:%Nov; edited 2 times in total |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Nov 19, 2016 - 17:00 |
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| pythrr wrote: | These are my guesses only, as admins will determine things on the basis of the info they have from both parties.
1) My opponent writes 'there is a bug, stop playing', lets his turn run over 4 minutes. I click timeoue and carry on playing. Then my opponent drops the game and writes a support ticket to admins, what happens.
--- you would get warned/banned/something for for abusing the timeout button.
2) My opponent writes 'afk', lets his turn run over 4 minutes. I click timeout and carry on playing. If my opponent drops the game and writes a support ticket to admins, what happens.
--- you would get warned/banned/something for abusing the timeout button.
3) My opponent writes 'I need 5 minutes for x'. I write nothing back. lets his turn run over 4 minutes. I click timeout and carry on playing. If my opponent drops the game and writes a support ticket to admins, what happens.
--- you would get warned/banned/something for abusing the timeout button.
4) My opponent writes 'I need 5 minutes for x'. I write 'ok'. lets his turn run over 4 minutes. I click timeout and carry on playing. If my opponent drops the game and writes a support ticket to admins, what happens.
--- you would get warned/banned/something for both lying to your opponent and for abusing the timeout button. |
These are all correct. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Nov 19, 2016 - 17:04 |
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| easilyamused wrote: | I'm not sure how many times it has to be said.
We are not going to write strict rules for every simgle scenario that could crop up in a game.
*shakes head in amazement*
Am I the only one around here who actually considers this a hobby to be enjoyed? So what if your opponent occasionally goes over the limit. Sit back, relax, chat and have fun. |
You're crazy! |
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Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
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Throweck
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
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| Posted:
Nov 19, 2016 - 17:19 |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Nov 19, 2016 - 18:04 |
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@OP: Basically, the site rules leave some room for discretion and an admin's decision is final, regardless of whether it seems to you that they are being unfair/inconsistent.
If you don't know exactly where the edge of the cliff is, it might be best to stay well away from it? |
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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!"  |
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Matthueycamo
Joined: May 16, 2014
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| Posted:
Nov 19, 2016 - 18:33 |
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| Throweck wrote: | Brb - phones ringing.
Please don't lock the thread while I'm away. Cheers. |
*Times out*
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DLE College 7s |
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Throweck
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
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Nov 19, 2016 - 18:37 |
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Matthueycamo
Joined: May 16, 2014
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Nov 19, 2016 - 18:41 |
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In all honesty, this topic has got rather too much air time. The vast vast majority enjoy being social and don't care about time usually or if they do give fair warning. As with everything in life a few only care about themselves and what they can grab but to be honest it's so few people it's a non issue and staff do a fine job when needed to prevent abuse. |
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DLE College 7s |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Nov 19, 2016 - 19:01 |
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My dog (who is on fire) activated me for blackbox, and timed out my afk opponent in t1? Halp.
Thanks. |
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Dominik
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
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Nov 19, 2016 - 20:09 |
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| Throweck wrote: | Back!
It was a beautiful lady who said she wanted to hold her body against mine.
What? Oh ffs. I'm starting a thread. |
It's funny that you experienced the same that I did recently in my FUMBBL Cup game which costs me the win. But in reality I am the winner as my lady is keenly awaiting me. The problem is, that I do not know a good hotel in Lagos, Nigeria, but since I told her that I am wealthy she promised to take care of that and rent a first class suite.
Flight goes next Tuesday, if everything goes fine I won't be seen on FUMBBL for a long time. Sorry folks! |
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