harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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 Posted:
Dec 19, 2019 - 23:19 |
 
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I think it's a good idea to do a Witch Hunter roster. I know we thought about it in the past. I can't remember if we did anything for it though. I would, like you go with a Leader (Witch Hunter). The problem with these type of rosters though (with a 0-1 leader type character) is that they become very luck based. If this positional flourishes the team does well. If 1 or 2 die and you can't afford to replace him again and again, the team does less well. This makes balance impossible. You'll get some teams that are too good and some that aren't so good. However the stats suggest the team is balanced (due to the luck involved of developing your 0-1 positional). That said, although these type of rosters are a toothache...it's probably the way to go.
Looking at the rest of your roster, it's far too reliable. You have S access. A access on a player that's actually good and nice MA8 players. However you don't have any block or dodge key skills at low TV. This again is a balance problem. A bit of a pain to get going, however when they do get going they're going to be very strong.
So if the Witch Hunter roster is this strong (much better than standard humans at high TV).........why haven't we heard of them before or there aren't any famous WH rosters to this point?
I also think that you've missed an opportunity to have the very characterful flagellants. Or going back a bit........ zealots.
Flagellants were described as being unbreakable. The core skill to describe that is Stand Firm. I believe at one point they did (or Zealots or both) had Warhammer 'frenzy'.
Frenzy has been described (mostly) in Blood Bowl by a combination of skills; frenzy, wild animal, jump up, thick skull, no hands.
So for me (aside from normal human skills) they're the 6 skills that would describe this roster, possibly even ball and chain too.
Fresh Recruit (Lineman, 0-16): 6/3/3/8 – Access to G skills.
Yeah this is fairly standard. I don't think there's any reason to call them 'Fresh Recruits'. They can never lose that moniker nor change their position. You'd have a Legend that's still a 'Fresh Recruit'.
3 options for me are:
1. Keep them as they are, but change the name. Lineman is fine, it's a Blood Bowl lineman. I seem to remember that Witch Hunters would recruit Trackers/Animal Hunters for parties delving into the dark forests or foresters.
2. The difference having 6338 & 6337 linemen is massive. This could add a lot of balance to your roster (if the positionals became more reliable early on). AV7 would fit more with lightly armoured people who work in the forests.
3. Go something down the 'zealot line' which would give you the opportunity to give them a skill (although I generally dislike linos with skills). Zealot lineman 6337 jump up/thick skull 50k....(55k is much better).
Empire’s Courier (Thrower, 0-2): 6/3/3/8 – Sure Hands / Fend
A thrower without a throw skill? I have no idea now (probably are now) but a few years ago what thrower didn't have the pass skill? The fact they don't have pass means they aren't throwers to me. They are in fact runners. Also do they fit the theme of a Witch Hunter team? I see the Witch Hunter being the main man who does all the daring running plays. A courier or squire feels much more Bretonnian to me.
Personally I'd scrap this positional. However I'd probably go 7337 sure hands (lose some armour to increase speed) if you are set on keeping them. Empire's Runner would also be a perfect name for them. Hmmmmm I do like that aspect. "Empire's Runners. Run the roads of the Empire delivering messages to and from the Witch Hunters."
Sigmar’s Fanatic (Blocker, 0-4) 5/4/2/7 – Grab / Thick Skull / Zeal – Access to GS skills – Cost 90k
These have to become Flagellants in my opinion. However we do have some cool names here; 'Flagellants', 'Sigmarites', 'Zealots', 'Fanatics'. Any you don't use, you should use in the 'famous teams' section.
The main problem with my idea here, is it makes the roster even more luck based. However this roster idea really does feel like a luck based roster.
Personally I think I'd remove the runner and go for 2 positionals here. One mediocre and reliable. The other batsh*t crazy, fun and unreliable. Using the 6 skills/traits mentioned earlier (frenzy, wild animal, jump up, thick skull, stand firm, no hands).
Sigmarite Fanatic (lunatic)
Flagellants (semi reliable hard man)
Witch Hunter (Blitzer, 0-2) 8/3/3/8 – Shadowing / Zeal – Access to GA skills – Cost 100k
Inquisitor (Leader, 0-1) 7/3/3/8 – Leader / Block / Dauntless / Zeal – Access to GAS skills – Cost 140k
Isn't the Inquisitor a 40k thing? A Witch Hunter would be a Warhammer world Inquisitor right? I think I would meld these 2 into 1 thing. It's natural that he has Leader. However the Leader skill does horrible things to a starting TV (I'll forego on a RR due to my guy coming with leader). Then he dies..........the team doesn't have a RR. No block/dodge.........UGHHH GAME OVER. Let's recycle a new team.
So those are my ideas. In short:
1. Change of name for the lineman. Or Change of theme for the lineman (either a forester type hunter or a zealot).
2. Ditch the Courier. Or change the name and make him more runneresque.
3. The S access positional is the heart and soul of the theme of the team. I'd actually make 2 positionals here.
4. Witch Hunters and Inquisitors are one and the same to me (in this universe).
There's a real zealot feel to the characters that follow Witch Hunters around. That should be the main roster focus in my opinion. |
Last edited by harvestmouse on %b %19, %2019 - %23:%Dec; edited 12 times in total |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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| Posted:
Dec 19, 2019 - 23:19 |
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for the actual team and how you've made it - why would i bother with the courier? I could just ball with the MA8 witch hunters instead. it doesn't really matter what the skills are, I'm just going to make S4 brutes do the heavy lifting, cage around an MA8 player, and then dart that player into score. it's the main reason I'm against MA8 with more than 2 S4 players (although i can think of rules to allow it, but I wouldn't allow them AND the MA7 on the inquisitor in any case)
basically i'd play the Witch Hunter like a catcher, not a blitzer (which also solves harvestmouse' concern, although he may then point out that AV8 is very high for a catcher) |
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Thelovelyfool
Joined: Dec 19, 2019
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Dec 20, 2019 - 02:24 |
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Hi mate. This is amazing feedback.
To be fair, the names were mostly placeholders waiting for the team identity to be settled.
Same can be said for the fluff around: star players, history and Hall of fame teams. I was going to think about that once I had a roasted settled and working.
Also, even if I've given a lot of thought to this team, they're only 2 days old and I haven't had the time to take a step back and ponder. I actually really like most of your suggestions. I think making them more of a bash team can be interesting, instead of a weird hybrid with 4st 4 players and two st3mv8 ones. Thinking back, this is quite ridiculous. I appreciate your critics of the leader positional, but I feel it makes for an interesting dynamic where you really need to think about protecting a player, but you can't afford to underuse him either as he is your superstar. It's always sad to see the leader skill on the weakest players, even if it makes sense strategically. I understand it makes for very binary results but it seems so appropriate I don't want to abandon it before at least giving it a shot.
The flavour of your suggestions for blockers is also great. Really, thank you!
It's late and I need some sleep, but I couldn't resist sending you a first draft of the new iteration based on your feedback. I'll polish it tomorrow, but if you have any thoughts about them before that, you're welcome! I'm grateful you took so much time thinking in depth about the team.
Zealots (Lineman, 0-16): 6/3/3/8 – Thick Skull - Access to G skills – Cost 60k
Very resilients and dependable linemen. Endoctrined by Sigmar's priests (thick skull flavour).
Empire’s Runner (Runner, 0-2): 8/2/3/7 – Sure Hands, Fend – Access to GA skills – Cost 60-70k
Weak but fast, a messenger. Prime ball carrier but spp hog.
Frenzied Flagellant (Blocker, 0-2) 6/4/2/8 – Frenzy / Jump Up / Zeal – Access to S skills – Cost 100k
Powerful and relentless. Still AV8 so not unstoppable. Jump up can not reliably be used offensively due to AG2, but makes them hard to outrun. No access to G skill makes them even more unreliable. Needs a lot of guard babysitting to be efficient
A star player one can have wild animal, no hands, juggernaut/break tackle, mighty blow and ST5.
Sigmar's Hand (Blitzer, 0-2) 6/3/3/8 – Block / Grab / Zeal – Access to GS skills – Cost 90k
Your reliable but slow blitzer. Grab helps controlling the scrubs alongside the Flagellant's frenzy, making the team very strong in a scrub, especially on the side lanes.
Witch Hunters (Leader, 0-1) 7/3/3/8 – Leader / Block / Dauntless/ Zeal – Access to GAS skills – Cost 140k
He hasn't changed. Still the player to protect and Wardancer level of importance.
Apothecary: Yes
Team Rerolls: We'll see for balance. |
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Bakunin
Joined: May 08, 2011
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Jan 13, 2020 - 20:22 |
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would make a sigmar cult like this:  |
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