Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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 Posted:
Oct 25, 2023 - 19:14 |
 
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I think it NEEDS to mean you cant move after entering the opponents end zone while holding the ball after failing blood lust, because otherwise you get wierd situations where you WANT to fail bloodlust, so that you stall extra turns, by running through the end zone to safety (out of the endzone) and then biting a thrall, and then not scoring, despite holding the ball while in the opponents end zone. |
Last edited by Nelphine on %b %25, %2023 - %19:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Oct 25, 2023 - 19:20 |
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Conversely, if your move doesnt end when holding a ball and entering an opponents end zone after failing bloodlust [and we assume the stall tactic above shouldn't be allowed] then:
You could move 1 square into the opponents end zone. Then run 11 squares in the opposite direction and bite a thrall on the LOS.
Then, since you entered the end zone while holding a ball, and you bit a thrall, and you weren't knocked down or placed prone or lost the ball, you score a touchdown, DESPITE not ending your turn in the opponents end zone (which is not actually a stipulation in the scoring a touchdown rules.) |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Oct 25, 2023 - 19:48 |
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I think that a player carrying the ball and moving into the opponent End Zone should not be able to go out of it (but they should be able to move fully inside the End Zone without stopping the move as soon as they enter it and scoring the TD once the move is over).
That would make impossible to move in and out of the opponent End Zone to delay the stalling.
Disclaimer: just how I think the rule should be if I writed it. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %25, %2023 - %21:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Oct 25, 2023 - 20:22 |
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so, i can move into the end zone, and hand off? or pass? and why make a rule letting you move to one square, but not another? i don't think that makes any sense (lore or rules) |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Oct 25, 2023 - 20:29 |
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If I writed the rules, no, I would not allow the ball carrier to pass/hand off/lay down the ball with Fumblerooskie, just to move within the End Zone. At end of the move the TD is scored.
The sense of not allowing the ball carrier to move outside the End Zone is preventing the stalling by moving in and out of it. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %25, %2023 - %21:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Oct 25, 2023 - 20:38 |
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right, i understand what you're doing, but i'm not sure WHY you're disallowing everything else, except allowing them to move around in the end zone. why not remain consistent with disallowing everything else, and also disallow movement in the end zone (just as we do with all other players) |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Oct 25, 2023 - 21:00 |
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Well, I could say that it's not that realistic that a player stops immediately their movement as soon as they enter the End Zone.
I watched some games of American football and players don't impact on an invisible wall when they enter the End Zone, actually they run for a while due to their momentum (and they don't go outside as well).
Also, to get back to BB, it's really weird that a Frenzy player carrying the ball suddenly stops to hit an opponent just because they moved into the End Zone.
By the way, I talked about any ball carrying player moving inside the End Zone, not referring just to Vampires. So, there would be consistency with all the other players, if I get right what you mean.
Ah, I would disallow the use of Fumblerooskie as well in case the ball carrier entering the End Zone had it (to prevent a possible stalling exploit). |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %25, %2023 - %21:%Oct; edited 2 times in total |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Oct 25, 2023 - 21:02 |
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ah, fair. thanks for the explanation. i disagree (i prefer the simplicity of the current rule for non bloodlust players, and want consistency with bloodlust players), but i understand your point now. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Oct 25, 2023 - 21:03 |
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Sorry for being unclear, I should have explained it better, since the thread is about Vampires. |
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sebco
Joined: Feb 14, 2005
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Oct 25, 2023 - 22:11 |
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In LRB 6, there was that sentence in the touchdown chapter : "If a player from the moving team enters (or was already in) the opposing team's End Zone, and has or obtains the ball, then he may not voluntarily leave the End Zone for any reason during the same action nor may he hand-off or pass the ball."
This is no more in BB 2020 rulebook. |
_________________
I like cheese but don't call me skaven ! |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Oct 25, 2023 - 22:18 |
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Yes, I remembered that as well, I wonder why the rule was changed in BB2020. |
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TheGe
Joined: Mar 31, 2015
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Oct 25, 2023 - 22:46 |
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Maybe because in BB2020 there was no blood lust to begin with... |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Oct 25, 2023 - 23:17 |
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Where is the issue with blood lust and letting the player carrying the ball move into the End Zone, rather than stopping them as soon as they enter it? |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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Oct 25, 2023 - 23:25 |
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the way the new Bloodlust rule is written (ref. page 5 of Spike!Issue16 which Sp00keh kindly quoted) a vampire ball-carrier under the effect of Bloodlust entering the endzone does NOT score IMMEDIATLY a TD. This overrides rule at page 64 of the BB2020 manual.
"If the player was in the opposing EZ, no touchdown is scored"
This sentence implicitly hangs up at the beginning i.e. "at the end of their activation...:" So the turnover only happens at the end of the vampire's activation if he does not bite.
this is proven by the fact that if you enter the EndZone with a ball-carrying vampire who is under the effect of bloodlust and do not press 'end turn' i.e. do not declare the activation end, nothing happens, the touchdown is not awarded. Precisely by virtue of that rule stated above. In sum "time stands still" until the vampire 'finishes' the action. IF you press "END TURN" and have not bitten a thrall then turnover happens indipendently where the vampire is located and he drops the ball.
In the case we are speaking the vampire hasn't completed the action yet and so he can exit and re-enter the EZ by virtue of what is written in the sentence in bold before his activation is not completed so he can continue walking at his pleasure. Entering EZ in this state does not award any TD till end of activation phase.
IMO if G&W want to make clarity in the FAQ should amend the TD rule on page 64 of the manual saying that a TD is scored ONLY when a player stands and NOT under the effect of bloodlust enters the EZ. But if we admit that the latest rule override the oldest this could also be not necessary
I am sure this implication of the "dancing aroung the EZ" will tickle the fancy of some deep stall specialist 
Apart the interpretation of this rule I think generally these new vampires can be much more nasty (i.e dangerous if you play against them) than the old one in my opinion.
In case you want to start BT9 now I think it deserve to be taken on Vampire Team in your squad as the extra cost is only 1. I am ready to bet in the next Trophy their cost will be increased! |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Oct 26, 2023 - 00:04 |
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sure, but i'm hoping they will amend the rule to be:
'when you enter the opposing end zone with the ball, your movement ends.'
'if you are holding the ball, you score a touchdown.'
Bloodlust: 'you cannot score a touchdown if you are under the influence of bloodlust unless you bite a thrall'
insert bloodlust between the two previous lines
'when you enter the opposing end zone with the ball, your movement ends.'
Bloodlust: 'you cannot score a touchdown if you are under the influence of bloodlust unless you bite a thrall. if you fail to bite a thrall, you drop the ball.'
'if you are holding the ball, you score a touchdown.' |
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