nickb2612
Joined: Mar 25, 2004
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 Posted:
Jan 24, 2005 - 10:20 |
 
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CDs.....Drawbacks???
Chaos Dwarves are not disadvantaged in any way. Why do you think they've just made their Rerolls more expensive?
CD's are a great team if you have some patience and know how to use them, I must admit i'm pretty bad with them but boy have I taken some beatings at the hands of the little terrors! |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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Jan 24, 2005 - 10:21 |
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I have played both Chaos and normal Dwarves. I find that CD's are perhaps not stronger per se, but are centainly a lot more fun to play.
While you make the point that Bull Centaurs are little more than Black Orcs on dope (  ) you fail to see the enourmous impact an ST4 guy with an effective movement of 9 has on the tactical flexibility of the team.
The joke is that the team is divided inot a solid front line, at TR 200 consisting of 6 Cd blockers and a big guy, all with guard so you can effectively tie up the opposition, and a bunch of speedy guys that can not only be hidden in a cage but can also play an effective running game.
You have tactical options to let yourhobgoblins be the runners and bash with the bulls or you can make the bulls into runners with break tackle and if you are lucky an MA+ or AG+ will make them very effective scorers.
All in all the CD's are fun to play, strong and versatile, while dwarves are only strong. |
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origami
Joined: Oct 14, 2003
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Jan 24, 2005 - 13:55 |
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Orcs and chaos tend to be the scariest teams at a high TR.
Orcs have great armor, so they will easily survive to a high TR, and most of their players can get MB/guard. An orc cage is almost unbreakable at high TR. With their decent passing game they only need to get that cage about half way down the field in order to open things up for a TD.
High TR chaos with plenty of claw/RSC will clear the pitch of your opponents, making scoring easy. The problem is that there will be few of those opponents. |
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johan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 24, 2005 - 14:21 |
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| Cloggy wrote: | The joke is that the team is divided inot a solid front line, at TR 200 consisting of 6 Cd blockers and a big guy, all with guard so you can effectively tie up the opposition, and a bunch of speedy guys that can not only be hidden in a cage but can also play an effective running game.
You have tactical options to let yourhobgoblins be the runners and bash with the bulls or you can make the bulls into runners with break tackle and if you are lucky an MA+ or AG+ will make them very effective scorers.
All in all the CD's are fun to play, strong and versatile, while dwarves are only strong. |
Dwarves are fun too. 
But you're perfectly right about CD. They're pretty much the only team that has such a tight focus on player roles. The troll and the Chaos Dwarves wade (slowly...) into the fray and suck up bashing while tying down the opposing players, the Bulls run around blitzing and sacking the ball-holder, and the Hobgoblins score (becuase, damn do they need to SPP, too!)
/johan |
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mutescreamer
Joined: Apr 09, 2004
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Jan 24, 2005 - 15:35 |
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Chaos Dwarves are awesome. I personally prefer them to Dwarves simply because of the variety that their player types offer you.
The undeniably unique Blitzing machine that is the bull centaur, which at strength 4 can move up to 9 squares even at rookie level.
Chaos Dwarf Blockers are tough enough to stand up to any team on the L.O.S
Probably the best bit to a chaos Dwarf team is the option to take on the cheap and (at first) expendanble hobbos at 40k a pop.
The reason rerolls are more expensive than dwarf rerolls is because they are a stronger team with much more variety and options on offer. |
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tza
Joined: Aug 25, 2004
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Jan 24, 2005 - 15:37 |
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I'd go with Nugler's Rotters as they're quite an interesting team to play IF you can avoid the generic claw/rsc way as that'll just get you games with Busko-like teams all the time (yes, a bit of claw is fine as Rotters do need some punch due to not having an apoc). |
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nickb2612
Joined: Mar 25, 2004
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Jan 24, 2005 - 15:54 |
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I'm not sure if Rotters are the best idea for a long term team due to having no apoth for the rather squidgy beastmen (who are also the teams main source of ssps), but that's just my opinion, I haven't really used them properly yet. |
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nazerdemus
Joined: Nov 02, 2004
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Jan 24, 2005 - 16:25 |
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Really it depends upon how quickly the team gets to the stage where its reverting to having to take the less useful skills , with norse this happens almost instantly , for amazons it happens at 16 spps , and for elves at 30spps , this makes elves a lot better at the stage were a lot of players have at least 16spps
ie at 1st skill the improvement of a norse player is already onto the miscalaneous skills (sure hands ,tackle , sure feet , etc )
with amazons it happens at 16spps (first skill at 6spps being block )
and with elves it happens at 31spps (first skill block/dodge , second skill dodge/block )
These are just broad outlines of players obviously you wont develop all the players the same as the generic blodge route dwarfs typically have two good skiills as well (guard , mb) , chaos have good development as well (block,guard)
So really for development purposes the big high tr teams are the ones who start with fewest skills and is really more in respect to ranked than proper league play .... |
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Bascrebolder
Joined: Nov 19, 2004
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Jan 24, 2005 - 16:56 |
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Well this is truely intersting to my quest for strong long-term teams. I agree that Orcs and Chaos are very good long-term teams (dwarves and high/dark elves being quite good as well). And I most definately agree with Nazerdemus and his skill-theory.
I’m afraid I’m still not convinced by the CD-fans though. There are two points that I like to mention here as far as CD’s go. Do people consider the (IMO) huge difference between the old 50k RR team and the new 70k RR team? With 50k RR’s I think it’s a rather nice team that I’d love to give a try but at 70k it’s just not working I’m afraid… Another point is that people mention BC’s movement as being 9. It’s not 9 it’s 6! There is (again IMO) a rather big difference between a ma6 sprint surefeet player and a MA9 player. Double 1’s will happen and you cannot go for it after 9 moves… And yet another point. AG2 is pretty bad for any ball-carrier no matter how high the ST or MA. How do you guys get the ball with the BC’s? It has to be risky at best…
It once took me 3 turns (and 3 RR’s) to get the ball with my elf thrower (mind you AG4 no rain). I can only guess what a little bad luck does to your plans with a Bull…
On the humans aren’t they just a little more-versatile but actually just worse than orcs in the long run? |
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torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Jan 24, 2005 - 17:25 |
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If I have to be honest, then: yes, humans are worse then orcs in the long run. It's the AV thing that holds them back mainly. They don't have the AG to dodge out of danger consistently. Their peak comes a bit earlier I think, having a full set of positionals and some skilled linemen. Which isn't hard to get, considering the low price of the players. |
_________________
The plural of anecdote isn't data. |
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Smess
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
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Jan 24, 2005 - 17:31 |
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I'd go for CD or Orx, they are real good in long term (and at any stage of development IMO)
Chaos is also real powerful at high tr, if you can succeed in keeping your skilled beastmen
Dwarves are good but you'll have a hard time finding games.
Elves are also good but you'll have to play a lot of scoring type games if you want to develop them to high rating
Humans can be good at high tr but you need stat increasements and doubles on the right players |
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nickb2612
Joined: Mar 25, 2004
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Jan 24, 2005 - 17:52 |
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Bascrebolder,
Bull Centaurs can be very effective ball carriers, you just have to see through the AG2. If you have a BC and a hobgob in the back field against a relatively slow team then you can afford to attempt to pick the ball up on a 4+, when the success of the dice roll doesn't matter a 50% chance isn't too bad. Combined with a RR or Sure Hands that chance is 75%, and once a skilled up BC has the ball it's hard to get it off him! Don't wish to bang on about BCs too much but they do have a lot of potencial.
Anyhow, it's obviously your choice at the end of the day any team can be taken into the 200+ region but imo orcs are always a great way to go longevity wise. |
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AFK_Eagle
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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Jan 24, 2005 - 18:37 |
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I tried orcs for a while, but grew frankly bored with them. They seemed to be too much cookie-cutterish IMHO. Granted, I only gave them I think 6 games try before scrapping the team, maybe they would've grown on me after. But they, like dwarves, seemed to me to be simply bash/absorb/bash some more type of gameplan. Vs a decent elf team, if you're not lucky in your cas rolls to clear the pitch, the elves will roll right over/around you and win the game, even if you're the one leaving the game intact and he's decimated. Humans, however, can survive a game vs orcs while skipping around them to the endzone, while conversely they have the speed to keep up with elves score for score, while methodically reducing their on-pitch numbers with a better bash-game than the elves.
Maybe what I like most about humans is they require better strategy on the part of the coach, since you can't rely upon natural physical gifts. Won't win as often as my other teams, but I have more fun, as it engages my mind more. They're not simply "beat til no opponents" nor "score a dozen OTS per game", but are somewhere in between... |
_________________
Listen to Eagle! Eagle is good, Eagle is wise!
Founder of the E.L.F.--These elves will play anybody! |
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johan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 24, 2005 - 19:22 |
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| AFK_Eagle wrote: | | Vs a decent elf team, if you're not lucky in your cas rolls to clear the pitch, the elves will roll right over/around you and win the game, even if you're the one leaving the game intact and he's decimated. |
Not true, you can win perfectly alright without getting the injuries in.
Let's say the elves receive. They score on turn 2 or 3 (just for the sake of argument). Then you get the ball, cage and stall and score on turn 8. Then you receive and do the same again. You don't need any injuries (although it helps).
What messes this game-plan up is one-turners. 
Of course, this is all in theory, because you will never get to play any elves with your orks.
/johan |
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nazerdemus
Joined: Nov 02, 2004
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Jan 24, 2005 - 19:40 |
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Usually against this tactic you can give ground very slowly , and make them have to push turn turn 6 or 7 to ensure the score ,meanwhile they should be chipping at the corner of your cage and disrupting forward movement or if your feeling saucy jump into the cage with a strip ball and a reroll . Once the balls lose your sorted for a break and score |
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