Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Mar 08, 2005 - 23:17 |
 
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Well, I know this will offend some people, so I ask you to please read it all and believe my sincerity before flaming me. I only mention this because it is a problem I have recently become aware of in myself. I'm not saying I'm way better than everyone else, I just figure this realization is helping me relate better to those around me, so maybe it's worth mentioning.
This came to mind while skimming the God? forum topic. I purposely did not write there, as I firmly believe the saying of a wise old man I met, "If you ever find yourself in a position where you feel like you have to defend God, DON'T!" So instead I start a new thread 
Actually, this isn't about God or religion, that's just one area where it comes up. I noticed a while ago that, not only do I think my beliefs are right (which is normal and healthy), I think they are somehow WAY better thought out than everybody else's. I was considering some of the arguments people around me make, when I KNOW that they don't know what they are talking about. It occured to me that I do the same thing. I give these grand sweeping statements about things I've just thought about.
On the God? topic there were "disproofs" for religions. Reasons that they simply don't make sense. Well, you can say reasons that they don't make sense to you, or why you have trouble believing it, but when you present it as the "simple answer", I mean.... Islam is the youngest of the major world religions, and you are still looking at well over 1000 years of wrestling with these questions. It's not like we are coming up with brand new thoughts on this stuff.
The same applies for Politics, philosophy and social issues. Most people's positions are based on real thoughts and values. Most people aren't idiots. I have, in light of noticing this tendency in myself, adopted a piece of a saying of St.Francis as a life motto. "Seek first to understand". If you care about any of this, care. If you are offended, sorry. If you want to tell me why, I'm fascinated to hear it.
Mac |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis
Last edited by Macavity on %b %21, %2005 - %18:%Apr; edited 1 time in total |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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Mar 08, 2005 - 23:32 |
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You can tell people who are doing good degrees because they're convinced they know very little.
It harms people's egos to admit (even to themselves) that they in fact know practically nothing in comparison to the vast wealth of avaliable knowledge.
I just have a great big gob. |
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Forum terrorist. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Mar 08, 2005 - 23:44 |
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Yes, Inquisitor. The riddle of the Oracle and all that |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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mattwakeman
Joined: Feb 15, 2005
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Mar 08, 2005 - 23:47 |
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Most people tend to confuse 'opinions' with 'knowledge'. Also most people simply don't listen to what is said around them. Instead new information is simply filtered through what they already think and anything that they don't agree with is simply ignored.
Now this is not to say that this is entirely a bad thing as if we all did walk around fully aware of just how little that we know about virtually everything then we would all be slack-jawed idiots rather than just getting on with doing stuff. And as a pointless aside people's brains are actually getting lighter as society develops. And one theory behind this is that we are able to access more information and expertise quickly that we do not have to learn ourselves. Thus we are able to free ourselves from the burden of knowledge are are left to simply bask in the very shallow pool of...opinion... |
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Laviak
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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Mar 08, 2005 - 23:49 |
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| Quote: | | Well, I know this will offend some people, so I ask you to please read it all and believe my sincerity beofre flaming me. |
Mac, you could sneeze, and you'd probably still offend some people 
I often find it difficult to admit that I'm wrong, and I'm guessing that it's the same for a lot ofpeople  .
One thing that I think is particularly difficult is admitting being 'wrong' in an area that you are particularly skilled at (or think that you are skilled at anyway). Especially when someone else comes up with a 'better' solution/answer to a problem than you did. |
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BunnyPuncher
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 09, 2005 - 00:03 |
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The one nice thing about being a trained researcher is knowing that there is no such thing as good research even within a particular paradigm. When you extend that to consider the plethora of theoretical approaches to science (positivism, structuralism, marxism, realism, naturalism and their related "posts" to name a few) you realize there is no good science. Even the most rigorously amoral pursuits in the physical (pure sciences) are compromised by the cultural boundaries/tradittions/interpretive framework of the researcher. |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 09, 2005 - 00:03 |
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/me buys Macavity a drink.
{ edit: Just in case someone's sarcasm detection system is offline, what I really mean to say is that I agree entirely and he's summed it up nicely. } |
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Ta-Ouch! of BloodBowl
Condensed Guide for Newbies
Last edited by BadMrMojo on %b %09, %2005 - %00:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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Cortelll
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 09, 2005 - 00:06 |
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Nordmark
Joined: Sep 09, 2004
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Mar 09, 2005 - 00:08 |
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It´s also a difference with knowledge and knowing. Just because you "know" something doesn´t mean that it is knowledge. The problem is that people take facts and base it on an theory.
If you find yourself falling into madness..dive. |
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”The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is the fear of the unknown.” - H.P. Lovecraft |
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Imerikol
Joined: Aug 05, 2004
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Mar 09, 2005 - 00:09 |
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Discussing the truth of any religion is an exercise in futility. There is no way to prove something does NOT exist in some remote place and time. This fundamental deficiency in our ability to confirm means you can say just about anything exists and there is no way to say otherwise. That is why science is only concerned with things that can be demonstrated with positive proof.
UFOs, Sasquatch, the Loch-ness monster, God... these are just a small list of things that will never be disproven, though they may or may not someday be positively affirmed. Until that day, believe as you like. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Mar 09, 2005 - 00:10 |
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| BadMrMojo wrote: | | /me buys Macavity a drink. |
Wow! You are like my online hero, and you buy me a drink... *sniff* YOU buy ME a drink! |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Mar 09, 2005 - 00:13 |
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Imerikol, are you familiar with the term Tautology? It's like a scientific theory in that neither have been proved for certain, but a good scientific theory has a POSSIBLE disproof. (Interestingly enough, some things labelled theories are tautologies; that's another topic) |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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Tesifonte
Joined: Sep 06, 2004
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Mar 09, 2005 - 00:19 |
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I hope that drink has no caffeine xD |
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TaChIkOmA! \o/ |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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Mar 09, 2005 - 05:03 |
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Hmm since political ideology derives from the thought and perception of academic thinkers (oh and Rousseau), wouldn't it be a good idea to reject all ideological systems on this basis?
3000 words on my desk in the morning please. |
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Forum terrorist. |
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Covertfun
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 09, 2005 - 05:36 |
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Most opining (the act of giving an opinion) is based on the slightly gauche assumption that other people don't know what's good for them.
There ARE a lot of stupid people out there. But it's a tough call to say "If you do what I say, you'll be better and happier". [Unless it's a hostage situation and you have a gun  ]
On the other hand, when someone tries to sway my point of view, I'm often as ignorant and violent as the most thuggish of zealots. Only later does it occur that they might have been trying to save my soul out of altruism.
But then again, some people REALLY ARE STUPID. I'm just so undecided - who should I listen to? no no, don't tell me... |
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